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I suppose we have to remember the desperate times while we are discussing the finer points of human behaviour.
Does everything go out the window?
Its hard to say as none of us where there and we rely on documents and hearsay.
I ask an open question...would you shoot a bailed out pilot if you were a pilot in WW2?
John
Most men will eventually break if they remain in combat too long. Perhaps some of these aircrew were at the breaking point.
I must admit that the largely "Western" concept of "Civilized" warfare is probably one of Humanity's most contradictory examples. We advocate Total War yet place rules on conduct. The goal is the total anhilation of the enemy, yet we by nature (unless clouded by personal hate/grudge), gravitate towards examples of Chivalry and Genteel behavior while turning away from more graphic and brutal examples as often seen in the Pacific or on the Russian Front. It's an uncomfortable subject because it makes one question the very moral fiber of our people and one-self.
Here was another real life controversey that 'was' official policy. That being the RAF policy of considering Rescue aircraft a legitimate military target both during the Battle of Britian and during the Med. campaign, primarily the siege of Malta. The Italians and Germans made alot of press out of this policy. The British government took a defiant attitude, saying that to allow downed pilots to be rescued from the water meant that those pilots could again appear over British soil (or around Malta) which in it's view constituted a direct threat to it's survival. Hence the brightly colored and or Red Cross marked planes were attacked regularily.
The same UK government, like most nations, however would not sanction shooting pilots and crew in parachutes on the way down.
Like i said.....a contradiction, and a quandry. Some people like to make great press of the barbarity of the Japanese in combat (not speaking of their mistreatment of subject populations)....or perhaps that of the Germans and Russians in their KultureKrieg. It could be argued however that theirs was a more pragamtic approach to war.
On the other side of the coin, I like how Hastings pointed out that for the Western Allies, they did try to fight on a more "civilized" level at times in order to highlight the difference betweenst the ideologies of the Democracies vs. the Dictatorships. "Fighting the good fight" has it's place in WWII though it seems to have applied more to Europe than the Pacific.
you seem to have posted that in fact the higher ups knew and did nothing.They weren't. You are not wrong.
Steve
the otherside of the coin now... the C/O of the AAA unit was very pissed off when they brought Maxis's body to the C/O's office stripped to his underwear in a wheelbarrel. I believe he wanted to charge those responsible, but was whitewashed for reasons above. source: Operation Bodenplatte: The Luftwaffe's Last HopeEdit I see someone else has already posted the order I was trying to dig out. We should deal in facts,hopefully documented not baseless tittle-tattle and opinion.
A forced landing wasn't always a better option. 24 year old Unteroffizier Herbert Maxis was flying on operation Bodenplatte and belly landed his Bf109G-14 near a position occupied by the 739th Field Artillery Battallion. As he climbed unhurt from his aircraft he raised his hands and tried to surrender but one of the Americans shot him dead. There are some sad pictures of the unfortunate Maxis lying on the wing of his aircraft....without his boots which have been "liberated". Infact the Americans stripped his body to such an extent that no identification could be found and he was buried as "unknown". He is still officially M.I.A. as his grave is now lost.
There was talk of a court martial,the man who shot him was known,but the idea was dropped when it was claimed that Maxis came in with his guns blazing. I doubt he did,he would have been busy trying to get his damaged aircraft down in one piece.I suspect this embellishment was agreed upon as the whole affair was covered up.
Just one instance amongst thousands.
This is not a pop at that U.S. unit,it could have been anybody.War,as the saying goes,is hell.
Steve
thank you for opening this thread, its brought some very interesting conversation about various practices from both sides of the fence.Mind you, I'm not interested in denigrating anyone for exercising this option when faced with deadly odds. And I know what it's like to be frightened in an aircraft. I simply want to know if there was any policy behind it when I write about it. It appears not. Thanks to all.
but a crewman can go without the pilotThe whole crew in a bomber does not have to agree to bail out, or fly to a neutral country. Once the pilot or pilots make that decision the rest of the crew doesn't have any other choice but to go along.
the otherside of the coin now... the C/O of the AAA unit was very pissed off when they brought Maxis's body to the C/O's office stripped to his underwear in a wheelbarrel. I believe he wanted to charge those responsible, but was whitewashed for reasons above. source: Operation Bodenplatte: The Luftwaffe's Last Hope