Malaysian Airlines B777 still missing
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
That's what I was wondering...if the cellphones are still active, then they should be able to get a fix on the phone's general location by way of the cellsites.
There's word this morning that a U.S. destroyer is moving into the Indian Ocean by way of the Straights of Malacca to search while the other U.S. destroyer remains in the vicinity searching with 11 other nations.
A couple of local officials were apparently upset that the U.S. destroyer is looking in that direction. My reaction to that is why would they be putting up such a complaint?
Hmmm....
There's word this morning that a U.S. destroyer is moving into the Indian Ocean by way of the Straights of Malacca to search while the other U.S. destroyer remains in the vicinity searching with 11 other nations.
A couple of local officials were apparently upset that the U.S. destroyer is looking in that direction. My reaction to that is why would they be putting up such a complaint?
Hmmm....
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The ringing that people claim to be proof that they're still active, is just a local system generated tone sent back to the caller. It doesnt mean the other phone is ringing. Just that the cell system is sending a ring tone.
Don't confuse traditional land lines with high tech doohicky systems.
Don't confuse traditional land lines with high tech doohicky systems.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
If my iPhone is on, it rings or if unanswered, it goes to voicemail. If I'm out of a service area, the phone's incoming call gets a message (I don't recall the message) after several rings and if it's powered off, it goes straight to voicemail.
That's in your local system.
Roaming globally is different in different countries, just as the disconnected/ringing tones are.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Perhaps I should clarify here...
I am not suggesting that these cellphones are audibly ringing at the secret Nazi base in Antarctica.
I should have worded it a little better, but the intention was that cellphones ping-back to cellsites (when they are turned on, either active or asleep) and the cellprovider can track most modern phones to a certain area...not nessecarily pinpoint an exact location but at least have a general idea of where they may be (at their last known pingback/data packet tx/rx).
This may show if there was a deviation in their route or if all the phones ceased activity in a certain area, etc.
I am not suggesting that these cellphones are audibly ringing at the secret Nazi base in Antarctica.
I should have worded it a little better, but the intention was that cellphones ping-back to cellsites (when they are turned on, either active or asleep) and the cellprovider can track most modern phones to a certain area...not nessecarily pinpoint an exact location but at least have a general idea of where they may be (at their last known pingback/data packet tx/rx).
This may show if there was a deviation in their route or if all the phones ceased activity in a certain area, etc.
- Thread starter
- #28
Airliners do have conventional instruments that are analog for back up, (I think it's an FAA requirement) but it is extremely rare for glass cockpit instrumentation to fail. The EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) works from the Air Data Computer, which receives data from the pitot static ports and the AoA vanes, of which modern airliners have more than one for redundancy. In case of failure of one of the ADCs, you can switch the instruments to read from the other; either Capt or F/O's side, designating one as a master and another as a slave, depending on which has failed. As for redundancies in comms, there are always more than one radio on board; even light aircraft are fitted with two VHF comm sets. Again, it's highly unlikely that both VHF radios are not going to work and even then, most airliners are also fitted with UHF sets, too. The fact that the transponder or ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) signals are not being picked up, or no longer transmitting suggests structural break-up.
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Thorlifter
Captain
IF the cell phones were actually still on, I'm sure the authorities long ago thought about triangulating the signal from the cell towers. With people saying the phones are still ringing is just offering the family members hope.
- If this airliner crashed or was destroyed over the ocean, it would most likely have been found by now so IMO, I don't think it did.
- If this airliner crashed in a mountain or thick forest region, it could take quite a while to find it since it will be hidden by the natural terrain.
- If this airliner was successfully landed at an air strip, it's being hidden by people who know how to disable all the signals from the black box and other devices.
Do you remember the Air France flight from 2009? While they found the wreckage in a few days, it took them 2 years to find the black boxes. Remember Steve Fossett's plane crash? It took them a month to find that wreckage. Yes, I know that was a small private plane and not a Boeing 777, but it's not always easy to locate the crash sites, especially in bad terrain.
- If this airliner crashed or was destroyed over the ocean, it would most likely have been found by now so IMO, I don't think it did.
- If this airliner crashed in a mountain or thick forest region, it could take quite a while to find it since it will be hidden by the natural terrain.
- If this airliner was successfully landed at an air strip, it's being hidden by people who know how to disable all the signals from the black box and other devices.
Do you remember the Air France flight from 2009? While they found the wreckage in a few days, it took them 2 years to find the black boxes. Remember Steve Fossett's plane crash? It took them a month to find that wreckage. Yes, I know that was a small private plane and not a Boeing 777, but it's not always easy to locate the crash sites, especially in bad terrain.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Can anyone clarify the claim that the RR Trent engines 'ping' out data by satellite, and had been operating for 4 hours as claimed. At a press conference yesterday the Malaysian spokesman claimed this was not true.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Here's the latest on flight MH370 by the Washington post...in the article, it addresses several points that we've been taking about 
Here?s how we know MH370 kept flying for hours
Here?s how we know MH370 kept flying for hours
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,954
- Jun 25, 2013
The way I understand it, the engines send out performance-related data via the aircraft's satellite communication system. These data are not monitored in real-time, but are used for engine performance tracking, which is used to assist in scheduling inspections.
Given that the black box recorders are so critical for accident reconstruction, and frequently quite difficult to find, I wonder if any serious thought is being given to requiring airliners to supplement the BBR with telemetry.
Given that the black box recorders are so critical for accident reconstruction, and frequently quite difficult to find, I wonder if any serious thought is being given to requiring airliners to supplement the BBR with telemetry.
Its just getting stranger the way I see it. Certainly seems that hijacking is top of the list but by whom and to where, you would of thought that somebody would of announced something if it was...
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
They are now saying they think the pilot(s) now had something to do with it. Their homes were searched based on some new evidence.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,954
- Jun 25, 2013
It seems very likely at least one of the pilots was involved: the airplane made some fairly complex maneuvers, which indicates at least some level of skill, and shutting down the communication systems was, according a 777-rated pilot who appeared on CNN, not obvious (he said he didn't know how to do it). The trouble is, what is the motivation for any kind of hijacking? Terrorists need publicity, like a dung beetle needs pooh, so if they hijacked the plane and killed everybody, they'd be bragging about it. Suicide? The Egyptair flight that went down due to a suicidal pilot did so quickly, without any maneuvering. North Korean sleeper agents? The guys running NK are crazy enough, and do have a history of killing people far from the Korean peninsula; Kim Jong-un certainly has the lack of moral fiber needed to try it, and he's certainly stupid enough, but I think that any NK sleeper agent smart enough to tie his own shoes would defect.
Ilyushin IL-2 Sturmovik
Airman
Why have only a few navies and look in a few places but that idea with the satellites is quite intelligent. I don't know why they have not looked at a current map (not a map like now but of currents like the Gulf Stream) and see where that could had led to.
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Surely deactivating some of those systems would require more than a just a pilots skill? Perhaps a maintainer or some specialist with knowledge to got into the A/C electronics bay(s) locate the correct system modules/switches or have equipment to hack/rig the circuit boards without damaging the flight dynamics gubbins - assuming that I haven't been watching too many films, and there are actual cockpit switches for some of the deactivated things.
I'd thought that some of the tech of airliners are fairly classified, perhaps system layouts/designs would be generally unkown to the civil pilot.
To me tho', length of time to disclose some details in such a 'I/We don't know...' manner could mean a partial gag/blackout; that government(s) are under threat to keep a lid on things where possible to keep hostages alive.
I'd thought that some of the tech of airliners are fairly classified, perhaps system layouts/designs would be generally unkown to the civil pilot.
To me tho', length of time to disclose some details in such a 'I/We don't know...' manner could mean a partial gag/blackout; that government(s) are under threat to keep a lid on things where possible to keep hostages alive.
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The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
Whole thing makes no sense.
must be very few airfields that can land a 777.
And the majority of those would notice a giant airliner landing unannounced.
This is pure speculation and when there is no proof people just make it up
must be very few airfields that can land a 777.
And the majority of those would notice a giant airliner landing unannounced.
This is pure speculation and when there is no proof people just make it up
definitely makes no sense...
michaelmaltby
Colonel
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