meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
There may be a lack of "fibre" in their diet.
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
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Matt308
Glock Perfection
I'll speak up as a moderator that does not directly contribute to this subject out of sheer ignorance compared to many of our members and their knowledge... it is not the bias that gets a member into IMC. It is the attitude, backhanded comments and 'know it all' demeanor that get folks into trouble.
For the most part people get along. But those that push buttons knowingly with sniping comments or emoticons that imply same ( e.g.,
i.e., RAZZ ) are only drawing unnecessary attention to themselves that cannot possibly result in good.
For the most part people get along. But those that push buttons knowingly with sniping comments or emoticons that imply same ( e.g.,
i.e., RAZZ ) are only drawing unnecessary attention to themselves that cannot possibly result in good.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
and in case anybody is counting, I'm one of those Luftwaffe Uber Mensch. I know almost zilch about Allied aircraft ( some would say the same for me about the LW aircraft) and I think the LW aircraft were fantastic looking and in some ways and aspects superior in quality and design. Pilot training - at times - were better than others, etc. Well hell, look at my siggy, thats not a PZL 11. But......
Its like Matt said, Its not the content but how its presented.
Its like Matt said, Its not the content but how its presented.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
No, you got a Zeppelin, fer christ sakes!
And i still say that fibre in the diet could help several folks 'round here!
And i still say that fibre in the diet could help several folks 'round here!
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A 'Led' Zeppelin actually - a Day of Celebration, perhaps?
Point taken about the LW freaks - it just seems to be a coincidence that a lot of those who do get slaps on the hand are LW Ubermenchen, not saying all of those guys do and because you might be one then you are prone to a belligerent attitude, but it's common is all. Don't get me wrong; I have a healthy respect for the German aircraft and their use of technology, too and there's nothing personal intended in my comment, guys.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Perhaps its just uberassen.
I worked for a few years with 2 guys who were Holocaust deneirs, Nazi apologists, and KKK too. I've noticed a similarity in some of their idealology and some of our 3rd Reich fans. I've heard it all before.
They tried to convert me, and I tried to convert them, it was a interesting 3 years.
I took one of them several books on the Waffen SS, Gestapo, etc. and it backfired on me, it ended up increasing his admiration of them.
And worse of all, he still has those books.
They tried to convert me, and I tried to convert them, it was a interesting 3 years.
I took one of them several books on the Waffen SS, Gestapo, etc. and it backfired on me, it ended up increasing his admiration of them.
And worse of all, he still has those books.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
And that is why you never try to teach a pig to sing,
It is a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig!
It is a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I imagine the reason you get such a high frequency of "Germany know-it-alls" and the die-hard "Germany was such a badass above all else" crowd, is because they are kids enamoured by the "black-shirt - bad guy" syndrome.
Yes, Germany had cool, high-tech equipment, but so did the Allies. The difference is the Allies didn't have the black cross on their equipment and unlike the Allies, the Axis leaders had thier heads so far up thier a** that there was no real chance for success...but the last part isn't cool, so they forget to mention that in thier "uber alles" rants...
As far as the time-worn "Me262 versus the P-80" showdown, both machines were very closely matched and so it would have most likely come down to which pilot was better or who ran out of fuel first...
Yes, Germany had cool, high-tech equipment, but so did the Allies. The difference is the Allies didn't have the black cross on their equipment and unlike the Allies, the Axis leaders had thier heads so far up thier a** that there was no real chance for success...but the last part isn't cool, so they forget to mention that in thier "uber alles" rants...
As far as the time-worn "Me262 versus the P-80" showdown, both machines were very closely matched and so it would have most likely come down to which pilot was better or who ran out of fuel first...
I think you just take notice of these guys more than the others. There are just as many guys who think anything that had RAF roundels or the words Spitfire in it were the greatest things since bread and butter, and nothing made by anyone else could touch it. There are just the same for the USA fans. They are the lot that think that without the US the world was lost, and that all US made aircraft were miracles of superiority over anything.
There is a ton of national pride floating around on this forum (British, USA, German), most choose not to admit it. It also just so happens that many people choose to only see the Luftwaffe freaks. The Luftwaffe freaks are no better, don't take me wrong.
Having said all of this, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you make insulting posts, that will get you banned. No one will ever be removed for stating their mind or opinion. Just don't insult people.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
To add to this is when these people make specific claims without backing them up (The Bf 109 was the fastest fighter of the war, the B-29 was the largest aircraft to fly, etc.) personally, I will challenge and call out the grossly uneducated who come on here with a limited knowledge pool and then think they are going to school us. I don't profess to "know it all" but please, don't come on here, spout off half truths and lies and then think we wont challenge you.
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
You'll notice that I don't post in these "this vs that" threads. My knowledge of aircraft technical specs is non-existent. I think some of these people get their information from computer combat games. However, I do lurk in the background and watch for someone to overload his hummingbird mouth. At that point someone with greater technical know-how than I will jump.... feet first.
Just sayin'
Charles
Just sayin'
Charles
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Getting this thread back on track - BUMP
P80A flighttestdata from USAAF trials conducted 1946 and 1947. I excluded trial data for specially prepared high speed aircraft with shallow canopy and clipped wings, which would not be employed in operational fighters. Specially treated surface trial testdata are included and represent the fastest A/C in these trials. Turbine thrust output seems to have been differed significantly between individual engines.
The mean curve in black is representative for an average P-80A, the thinner curves represent poor or very good performing airplanes.
Below attached the Me-262a average speed curve, representative for A/C produced 1944.
These testdata are the mean curve of a rather scattered cloud of points from a total of 125 serially produced Me-262a1 acceptance speed tests. The corresponding curve shows somehow comparable A/C with regard to average top speed. The P-80 holds a slight advantage at Sea Level while the -262A holds an advantage in medium and high altitude. The differences in speed are not as large as differences between individual A/C, thus no conclusive statement can be drawn which A/C is faster.
enjoi.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Especially the Vampire. Quite a machine from what I know.
I was thinking about this thread (it's real purpose) and thought maybe that the early Meteor marks and Vampire could be included for interest's sake?
Erich
the old Sage
for me personally this multi paged thread has run it's due course really getting nowhere........time to close
And they are all wrong, you know Spitfire squadron 322 together with the 1st JaVA won the war singlehandedly. All the rest was just a sideshow....
aurora-7
Airman
I gave it to the P-80 only because I think it could out last the M-262.
Even thought the Me has better overall performance, it's engine issues could be come more apparent if it was pushed to fight another jet and end up catching fire. The P-80 could be victorious without firing a shot unless the Me had a well disciplined pilot that would not be baited into over stressing his machine.
Even thought the Me has better overall performance, it's engine issues could be come more apparent if it was pushed to fight another jet and end up catching fire. The P-80 could be victorious without firing a shot unless the Me had a well disciplined pilot that would not be baited into over stressing his machine.
