Most heavily Armed ship during ww2.
- Thread starter elmilitaro
- Start date
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trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
The LCT(R) wasn't designed to destroy pill boxes D it was used to clear beaches of mines barbed wire and hedgehogs many of which where topped with Tella mines the idea was this would also leave shell holes for additional troop cover unfortunately although the range was worked out fairly good due to the very heavy seas that where running at the landing sites many of the missiles landed well short of the beaches or over shot and went inland. In calmer conditions during trials they had blasted test Beach's layed with obstacles and mines to bits.
The reason I selected it as the most heavily armed vessel was that as a small boat of only 300 odd tons it could deliver 60 thousand lbs of ordnance in one whack.
The reason I selected it as the most heavily armed vessel was that as a small boat of only 300 odd tons it could deliver 60 thousand lbs of ordnance in one whack.
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
Got yer D. I agree if 50 rockets had hit a pill box it could not destroy it
A few more shell holes would have helped give the guys a bit more cover and the old LCG(L),s with there 4.7's if they had been deployed on the shore line would have definatly made the pill boxes cough a bit when fired at 200yds into the slits as they did 3 months later in the Walcheran island invasion.
A few more shell holes would have helped give the guys a bit more cover and the old LCG(L),s with there 4.7's if they had been deployed on the shore line would have definatly made the pill boxes cough a bit when fired at 200yds into the slits as they did 3 months later in the Walcheran island invasion.
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
Me old man went ashore after D-day+ (I think) 3 and had a look at one of the coastal defence buildings It had been hit by heavy naval shells and although having small cracks was still in good condition but inside all the occupants had been pulverised into Jelly by the colossul concussion.
He always said the German constructions lost the allied pill boxes for quality and strength.
He always said the German constructions lost the allied pill boxes for quality and strength.
Trackend, that's certainly an impressive chunk of steel depicted in that photo.
My understanding, from a book I have as well as a coupe of sites that I pulled up on the web, is that the thickest portion of the Tirpitz's belt was 12.4" or 12.6" (I see both figures listed).
That chunk looks thicker than that.
My understanding, from a book I have as well as a coupe of sites that I pulled up on the web, is that the thickest portion of the Tirpitz's belt was 12.4" or 12.6" (I see both figures listed).
That chunk looks thicker than that.
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
The Tirpitz had an 320 mm KC, not Wotan C - main armor bel and a sloped 100 mm Wotan hart armor belt, contacting the 80-120mm Wotan hart main armor deck. Behind the sloped armor deck is an additional 50 mm Wotan weich armor belt. If you consider any hits to penetrate the main armor deck (in order to hit vital structures, not just pass aways in the two deck deep empty space), they must also penetrate the sloped 100 mm AND the 50 mm behind it in order to get an important hit. Under most possible impact angles there is no chance except for a fluke hit under the main belt (a diving grenade may do so but for much reduced penetration abilities, the POW got one such hit against the Bismarck, but the grenade was stopped by the 50 mm Wotan weich armor belt completely) to penetrate the Tirpitz protection system at the main hull. Even a Yamato´s 18" shell, fired from elevation zero (point blanck range) has only a 11% probability to move beyond the protection into the main region. No other gun has even a chance to do so. Bets chance to get vital hits is from high elevation, the Tirpitz and Bismarck miss some good deck protection (esspeccially compared to contemporary US and jap. designs). But even here you need a huge distance (26.000 yards and more), where hits are very rare and uncommon.
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
They where very well protected vessels del but as with all battleships had become obsolete weapons by the beginning of the war by the end battleships where no more than coastal bombardment platforms with the carrier taking the role of capital ship which it still holds today.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
coming up against one's still a bloody scary thought though 
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
A mear bagatelle Lanc I have and Avon inflatable and a battery drill with a cobalt bit 
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
Indeed.
I think, those battleship designs are interesting but they had little justification in general with all the carriers around them. From the german position there is more justification to build them, not tacticly, they were way outnumbered, but strategicly. Scharnhorst, Bismarck and Tirpitz have been so succesful in binding large enemy forces.
The raids of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau earlier in the war have been a scary thing for the allied convois, as lone merchant raiders they had been promising, but Radar and reconplanes turned the tide.With the arrival of succesful carrier raids (Tarento), they lost what they have been originally thought for: the ultimate weapon on sea.
I think, those battleship designs are interesting but they had little justification in general with all the carriers around them. From the german position there is more justification to build them, not tacticly, they were way outnumbered, but strategicly. Scharnhorst, Bismarck and Tirpitz have been so succesful in binding large enemy forces.
The raids of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau earlier in the war have been a scary thing for the allied convois, as lone merchant raiders they had been promising, but Radar and reconplanes turned the tide.With the arrival of succesful carrier raids (Tarento), they lost what they have been originally thought for: the ultimate weapon on sea.
- Thread starter
- #54
elmilitaro
Senior Airman
Still, the PT-Boat was the best.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
evangilder
"Shooter"
Nice shot. Have you tried brightening it up with photoshop or another photo editting software?
I'm a huge PT Boat fan, The boys on those boats had big brass ones!!! If your going for firepower per pound the PT would be in the running, but if that's the case you also must consider the Kaiten Class, Japanese Manned Suicide Torpedoes. Again looking for punch per pound this would be a tough one to beat!
Tonnage
8.3 tons
Dimensions
48'4" by 3'3" by 3'3" or 14.73m by 0.99m by 0.99m
Maximum speed
30 knots
Dive
250 feet
75 meters
Complement
1
Armament
1.55 ton explosive charge
Machinery
1-shaft oxygen/kerosene motor (550 hp)
Range
78 nautical miles (144 km) at 12 knots
43 nautical miles (80 km) at 20 knots
23 nautical miles (43 km) at 30 knots
Production
330 Type 1
2 Type 2
1 Type 3
50 Type 4
6 Type 10
Modifications
The Type 2 had one or two crewmen and a powerful hydrogen peroxide motor, but these could not be produced in quantity and the program was canceled.
The Type 3 reverted to a kerosene motor with improved performance but only a single prototype was produced.
The Type 4 used the much larger hull (18 tons) and warhead (1.8 ton) of the Type 2 but with a conventional kerosene motor.
The Type 10 was based on the Type 92 torpedo, which used an electric motor.
These were dangerous little tinker toys, for the operators as well as the targets. I know it's hard to call it a ship, but it floats, it moves, it dives and sometimes comes back up!!, and it has a crew. So it's a boat I guess!!
Tonnage
8.3 tons
Dimensions
48'4" by 3'3" by 3'3" or 14.73m by 0.99m by 0.99m
Maximum speed
30 knots
Dive
250 feet
75 meters
Complement
1
Armament
1.55 ton explosive charge
Machinery
1-shaft oxygen/kerosene motor (550 hp)
Range
78 nautical miles (144 km) at 12 knots
43 nautical miles (80 km) at 20 knots
23 nautical miles (43 km) at 30 knots
Production
330 Type 1
2 Type 2
1 Type 3
50 Type 4
6 Type 10
Modifications
The Type 2 had one or two crewmen and a powerful hydrogen peroxide motor, but these could not be produced in quantity and the program was canceled.
The Type 3 reverted to a kerosene motor with improved performance but only a single prototype was produced.
The Type 4 used the much larger hull (18 tons) and warhead (1.8 ton) of the Type 2 but with a conventional kerosene motor.
The Type 10 was based on the Type 92 torpedo, which used an electric motor.
These were dangerous little tinker toys, for the operators as well as the targets. I know it's hard to call it a ship, but it floats, it moves, it dives and sometimes comes back up!!, and it has a crew. So it's a boat I guess!!
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
I think for a 'ship' with munitions not aircaft, armour, for a given size, weapon performance/spec it can only be the Yamato class; even if they were wasted, ill unused and were less useful than the Germans railed heavy/super cannons, even so in my mind, they are at least joint 1st, or within the top 3. It is just as well as for us, the HMIJN utilised them mostly for ego and not for war, or in anythink like a more proper warlike navally offencive manner where those macro cannons could find and home in on a target.
There was a few chances where they could've fired in anger, but they largely ignored, kept safe (to preserve egos) or used ineptly tactically by (higher) brass whom didn't wish to be the ones whom 'lost it/them' following the Navies sand in the headedness after Admiral Yamamoto's assasination. For that the allies should be greatful as we never saw what they could do had they been utilised as they were designed to, thank the/your/whichever deitie(s).
Airpower is largely 'king' nowadays, but for how long; war, warriors and their weapons do come and go around in cycles at times...
There was a few chances where they could've fired in anger, but they largely ignored, kept safe (to preserve egos) or used ineptly tactically by (higher) brass whom didn't wish to be the ones whom 'lost it/them' following the Navies sand in the headedness after Admiral Yamamoto's assasination. For that the allies should be greatful as we never saw what they could do had they been utilised as they were designed to, thank the/your/whichever deitie(s).
Airpower is largely 'king' nowadays, but for how long; war, warriors and their weapons do come and go around in cycles at times...
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If one was to compare battleships, then the Yamato class, the Iowa class and the Bismarck class would all be in the running. In any battle between these monsters luck would always play a roll. A critical hit to any system could change the course of the fight. If I remember right Bismarck took a hit to it's sighting computer when it fought Hood. You can't trade 2000 plus pound shells without braking something!! Also weather could be critical, in a heavy rain or a night battle the Yamato class might have a little problem. If I remember right the U.S. was thinking of a super battle ship based on the Iowa class but longer with a 4th. turret giving it 12 16 inch guns. But it never got off the drawing board. The day of the Battleship had passed. I don't think anyone can decide which would be the best.
Also you must remember that many of these beasties were directly linked to the pride of the country. That's why Yamato was never too active for fear that damage or loss would reflect on the honor of the country. Tirpitz suffered the same fate. So when it becomes a symbol of the country it can lose it's combat effectivness as a warship.
Also you must remember that many of these beasties were directly linked to the pride of the country. That's why Yamato was never too active for fear that damage or loss would reflect on the honor of the country. Tirpitz suffered the same fate. So when it becomes a symbol of the country it can lose it's combat effectivness as a warship.
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
When egos rule, eventually they'll suffer as a fool.... (at somepoint hopefully karmically)
