Just the kind of guy to get the most out of the likes of "Flip" Corchran.
Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?
- Thread starter Lucky13
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
When Kenny took over in the Southwest PTO, he discovered Pappy Gunn had been stuffing scrounged .50MGs into the noses of his 3rd BG's A-20s and strafing the hell out of the Japanese.
He was so impressed that he gave Gunn some B-25s to "field upgrade" into strafers, which was an instant success. (both types made a large impact on the Battle of Bismark Sea, btw)
Kenny like Gunn's innovations and go-to attitude so much, he made Gunn a member of his staff. For what it's worth, Pappy was an old Naval aviator (served with VF-1B before retiring) who was commisioned into the AAF during the Philippine evacuation.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I hadn't heard of him before this post of yours, reading up right now. Definitely same ballpark, and thanks for the lead.
Edit: for those unfamiliar, here's the Wiki on Col Cochran. Buyer beware, YMMV, etc, but it sure sounds like he was a pretty raucous guy.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
Well aware of that. Those field mods made it to factory floors, which says a lot about adapt-improvise-overcome, long before it was a motto in my Air Force (89-93). These were the guys who laid that down.
Flip and Pappy were birds of a feather, kind of like Chenault, but their timing was better, so they flourished in a more appreciative environment.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
The 30s and 40s were a time when rogues were still entertained, and bureaucracy hadn't become such a swamp, it seems to me. That goes for USMC as well as USAAF (Chesty Puller comes to mind), not so much for Army and Navy.
Chennault is another guy who worked for results rather than test-scores, good call on him there. He did have his own doctrine, in a sense, but it was adaptable and adapted to the circumstances under which his men flew. He trained them well, and they did him right.
wuzak
Captain
Unfortunately some of them were still in positions of power - such as Eaker, commander of the 8th Air Force until early 1944.
A common narrative is that the 8th Air Force stopped bombing raids after the the second Schweinfurt mission until escort fighters arrived.
The only problem with that is that Eaker wanted to continue. He didn't have the aircraft and crews directly after, and when he did the weather had closed in and made bombing raids with visual sighting very difficult.
The massacre at the second Schweinfurt raid (and possibly the Schweinfurt-Regensberg raid) convinced some that a long range fighter was required. So an emergency fighter program was started - the XP-75.
The XP-75 program produced nothing useful, while delaying the first flight of the XB-39, the B-29 with Allison V-3420s. Fisher was responsible for the XP-75 and the quick change engine modules for the XB-39.
When the XB-39 did fly, it was determined to not have a sufficient performance increase to warrant production. What if it flew a year earlier, when the R-3350s were still having significant issues?
wuzak
Captain
They often participated as the first leg of the escort relay on the outbound journey, and the last leg for the inbound journey.
Not sure when, or if, that stopped.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
As the sole escort platform for USAAF bombers, they escorted through mid '43 or so. The P-38 took up the task from there.
There were occasions after '43 where the RAF assisted in providing escort.
GregP
Major
Considering the P-51 almost single-handedly made escorted daytime precision (?) bombing a viable tactic, I'm hard-pressed to see how it has been overrated by 25% of the folks in here.
With that tactic, Germany could no longer could continue the fight after April 1945. The P-51 managed to do in about 2 years what had not been done for the preceding 4 years of the war ... it virtually created that tactic that, to a large part, helped bomb Germany into submission. To make it clear, the P-51 alone didn't create the tactic of precision daylight bombing. But it certainly made it a sustainable option by lowering the loss rates for daylight bombing enough to make it possible and sustainable once the Merlin-powered version got into the fight.
None of which takes anything away from the efforts of the USSR and the British military services of all types. The RAF dropped as many bombs in the ETO as the USAAF did, but mostly at night after they decided precision daylight bombing was not really sustainable. That achievement, escorted precision daylight bombing, is tough to classify as overrated, at least in my book.
But, hey, could be ... I suppose.
With that tactic, Germany could no longer could continue the fight after April 1945. The P-51 managed to do in about 2 years what had not been done for the preceding 4 years of the war ... it virtually created that tactic that, to a large part, helped bomb Germany into submission. To make it clear, the P-51 alone didn't create the tactic of precision daylight bombing. But it certainly made it a sustainable option by lowering the loss rates for daylight bombing enough to make it possible and sustainable once the Merlin-powered version got into the fight.
None of which takes anything away from the efforts of the USSR and the British military services of all types. The RAF dropped as many bombs in the ETO as the USAAF did, but mostly at night after they decided precision daylight bombing was not really sustainable. That achievement, escorted precision daylight bombing, is tough to classify as overrated, at least in my book.
But, hey, could be ... I suppose.
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,212
- May 13, 2018
You people are going to make me re-read my books to find the sources I remember. There was a North African Fighter commander who knew the current crop of newly equipped P-51D pilots arrived at his base believed they had the best aircraft and couldn't be touched. He scheduled appointments over the base with a new hot shot and the CO in his long nose P-40 was on the tail of the P-51 just after the merge. The idea was to get the new boys to understand some lifesaving techniques.
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
I vote P-47 as most overrated. Fast, tough and heavily armed. But if you need escort in 1943 and early 1944 the Thunderbolt was not the answer.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That was cold.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I can't see the P-47 being overrated. It didn't get the press its prettier stable mate got. It didn't escort the bombers like the P-51 but that wasn't its mission. Bombers didn't need escorts 
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
What in the world does 'overrated' mean in this sense? By whom? For what?
what I mean is that it's quite subjective and hardly debatable. One could argue that the Spitfire was overrated, being the symbol of the BoB while the Hurricane was actually the fighter to take the brunt of the fighting there. But can you really say it's overrated looking at the whole war? You can do the same mind game on any of the aircraft in WW2.
what I mean is that it's quite subjective and hardly debatable. One could argue that the Spitfire was overrated, being the symbol of the BoB while the Hurricane was actually the fighter to take the brunt of the fighting there. But can you really say it's overrated looking at the whole war? You can do the same mind game on any of the aircraft in WW2.
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Not in 1943.It was miles ahead of the P-39.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I beleive the OP was looking for "over rated" in an overall sense, not on a yearly basis.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 40,803
- Mar 26, 2007
Just read the Flip wiki page. What a guy. Is there a book about him?
