My New IL2 Video Research Thread...

[lesofprimus]

I think it came out pretty decent Dave, all things considered....

Now I can get to work makin the beginnings.... Thanks again for all ur hard work man...

 

[drgondog]

Here are several more Brown's and another Priest - can't find Rafferty

 

[lesofprimus]

Thanks Bill.... Lets see if Dave is gonna redo Rafferty's substitute face.... Something from the era photo-wise....

Bill, u got someone elses profile from the 354th that Dave can utilize to replace Raffs mug??

 

[drgondog]

yep - how about future X-15 test pilot and Vietnam AFC winner for Dhoumer Bridge - Bob White,

or, Jabby Jabara, future number two MiG killer in Korea

or Claiborne Kinnard, Jr - top 355th Strafer, and one of two 355th CO's that went on to command the 4th FG (but no 4th FG CO ever commanded 355th)

 

[GrauGeist]

Wow...awesome pics, Bill!

We should keep 'em for possible future videos...if we're not careful, we might end up rebuilding the entire 8th 9th!

I worked Rafferty's photo over...it should now match the other's images real close.

 

[lesofprimus]

That looks like a winner Dave, thanks for that....

Great shots Bill....

 

[drgondog]

Just verified that Rafferty was only with the squadron 7 days before KIA. Ditto Morgan and McCurry also lost on 9/11 - all flak

 

[GrauGeist]

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not, but I'm wondering who took a heavier toll on the U.S. fighter effort in the last year and a half of the war, the Luftwaffe's Flak or their fighters.

 

[lesofprimus]

Dave, can u send me the new Rafferty pilot skin????

I would say that flak was responsible for more US fighter losses than the Luftwaffe....

 

[GrauGeist]

It's on it's way!

I would be interested to see the numbers, because knowing the Luftwaffe still had plenty of fight left in it there towards the end, it did account for a good number of losses. But reading (and hearing first-hand) the accounts of the deadly flak, has always made me wonder what the loss ratio was.

Now next up are the 4 B-24s...While doing a little research, I came across a comment about EC-Q by Master Sergeant Ernest H. Barber,
392nd Bomb Group - 578th Bomb Squadron:

Here it is only two days later and on September 11, 1944 on the planes tenth mission and going to Hanover, Germany, #358 Q-Bar named PLEASURE BENT with 2nd Lt. N.E. Jones,Pilot-2nd Lt. A.F. Cicora, CoPilot-2nd Lt. A. N. Oppenheim, Navigator-T/Sgt. A. Berezovsky, Engineer-T/Sgt. D.R. Doolittle, Radio-S/Sgt. R o I. Gust erson, Gunner-S /Sgt. C .J .Raiston, Gunner S/Sgt. A.A. Natracia, Gunner and S/Sgt. K.T. Lockhart, Gunner were near Koblenz, Germany just before noon. Other crews reported seeing Q-Bar with a stabilizer and Pilots canopy shot away. When last seen it was peeling off with no chutes seen. I later heard that S/Sgt. A.A. Matracia was buried at Ardennes Cemetery twelve miles west of Liege, Belguim. In our 392nd Bomb Group 1991 directory we have 2nd Lt.Alfred M. Oppenhiem and S/Sgt. Gerald J. Ralston listed as members. This was fortunately my last airplane to lose.

From the serial on EC-Q, 42-50358, it would appear to be a newer machine (only 12 missions by 11Sept44), so it should be all metal. I'll see what I can do about finding a shot of it's noseart...

 

[drgondog]

Dave, can u send me the new Rafferty pilot skin????

I would say that flak was responsible for more US fighter losses than the Luftwaffe....

I say you are right. I am still scrubbing numbers from three different sources - all in minor conflict with each other - but...

8th FC Losses
Total = 2308
Air to air = 644 = 28%
Strafing = 890 = 38.5%
All Oth. = 774 = 33.5% (includes Mechanical, Fuel, Weather, Accidents)

8th BC definitely lost far more to flak than fighters from 1944 forward. By a large margin from Oct 1944 through April 1945.

 

[GrauGeist]

I know the game doesn't do flak any justice, but when the flak opens up, I sure get nervous...that stuff is evil...

As far as the B-24s go, I have a full list of the 578th in hand now, and am getting ready to get 4 painted up.

There were 7 ships from the 578th that day, 2 were lost, and a number had crewmembers killed or wounded.

42-50313 #313 EC-W "Wabash Cannonball"
Pilot 1Lt. W. Sturm
Copilot 2Lt. B. Jurczyn

41-29002 #002 EC-T
Pilot 2Lt. E. Twining
Copilot 2Lt. A. Duff

42-50358 #358 EC-Q "Pleasure Bent" ← Will be one of the 4 skins
Pilot 2Lt. H. Jones
Copilot 2Lt. A. Cicora
Shot down near Koblenz

41-28852 #852 EC-Y
Pilot 2Lt. R. Tays
Copilot F/O T. Ferguson

42-7466 #466 EC-N "Ford's Folly"
Pilot 1Lt. C. Rudd
Copilot 2Lt. R. Benson
Shot down over Koblenz

42-94966 #966 EC-E "Madam Shoo-Shoo"
Pilot 2Lt. R. Johnson
Copilot 2Lt. J. Cook

42-94764 #764 EC-N "Bad Penny"
Pilot 2Lt. H. McClellan
Copilot 2Lt. D. Carleton
Damaged by fighter attacks

Now I'm not sure why there's two N-bars...I thought maybe one was N and the other was N-bar, but aparently not...

I'll just use one and not the other, then...

 

[lesofprimus]

Great research Dave, sounds alright man..... Lookin forward to seein em done up....

 

[drgondog]

I know the game doesn't do flak any justice, but when the flak opens up, I sure get nervous...that stuff is evil...

As far as the B-24s go, I have a full list of the 578th in hand now, and am getting ready to get 4 painted up.

There were 7 ships from the 578th that day, 2 were lost, and a number had crewmembers killed or wounded.

42-50313 #313 EC-W "Wabash Cannonball"
Pilot 1Lt. W. Sturm
Copilot 2Lt. B. Jurczyn

41-29002 #002 EC-T
Pilot 2Lt. E. Twining
Copilot 2Lt. A. Duff

42-50358 #358 EC-Q "Pleasure Bent" ← Will be one of the 4 skins
Pilot 2Lt. H. Jones
Copilot 2Lt. A. Cicora
Shot down near Koblenz Winnen/Koblenz -5 KIA 4 POW

This probably a victim of JG300 a little earlier

41-28852 #852 EC-Y
Pilot 2Lt. R. Tays
Copilot F/O T. Ferguson

42-7466 #466 EC-N "Ford's Folly"
Pilot 1Lt. C. Rudd
Copilot 2Lt. R. Benson
Shot down over Koblenz

Possibly Allendorf area 8 KIA 2POW.. this matches up to the Red Flight location. This could be second "Ford's Folly 42-50466 mentioned in Mighty Eighth Combat Chronology and custom of placing last 3 digits (466) makes this one the likely correct ship rather than 42-7466. I don't believe 42-7466 is valid serial number, and makes 'N suspect also?

42-94966 #966 EC-E "Madam Shoo-Shoo"
Pilot 2Lt. R. Johnson
Copilot 2Lt. J. Cook

42-94764 #764 EC-N "Bad Penny"
Pilot 2Lt. H. McClellan
Copilot 2Lt. D. Carleton
Damaged by fighter attacks

Now I'm not sure why there's two N-bars...I thought maybe one was N and the other was N-bar, but aparently not...

I'll just use one and not the other, then...

I have found errors in the MECC but the Allendorf location matches up fairly well with Geissen to Marburg where the LW calims for B-24 occur for both JG300 and JG53

 

[Erich]

you guys are noting that oxygen masks need to be worn by both sides while in combat ? .....though I confess I have not noted at just what altitudes the pilots were flying on this mission

 

[lesofprimus]

Yea Erich, the game automatically puts on the masks once u reach atltitude....

Once I drop down to get the 2nd and 3rd kills, the mask will be off... Going to use the form up run over the Channel for the closeups and what not....

 

[drgondog]

Yea Erich, the game automatically puts on the masks once u reach atltitude....

Once I drop down to get the 2nd and 3rd kills, the mask will be off... Going to use the form up run over the Channel for the closeups and what not....

That is probably the way it happened - all in the fights returned at low to medium lowa altitude

 

[lesofprimus]

OK, been super busy on this bitch... Got the opening pretty much set... Heres a short sample for u to approve Bill.... I think the first 3 still frames work good....

Ive already got Jane III into air vid-wise and ready to do the join up and then flight over the Dover Cliffs.... The join up and formation flight over the Channel took me 3 hours to perfect....

Bill, Dave, ur comments are needed....

 

[drgondog]

OK, been super busy on this bitch... Got the opening pretty much set... Heres a short sample for u to approve Bill.... I think the first 3 still frames work good....

Ive already got Jane III into air vid-wise and ready to do the join up and then flight over the Dover Cliffs.... The join up and formation flight over the Channel took me 3 hours to perfect....

Bill, Dave, ur comments are needed....

Comment - Excellent

 

[lesofprimus]

So ur happy with the 3 opening slides Bill???? The text looks good???

Becca said it was kinda hard to read....