P51 DRAWINGS, HELP NEEDED

[VIPER190]

Hey guys
I'm in the process of producing drawings for a P51D Mustangincluding internal structure detail would be
greatfull if any of you guy's out there could help me with a couple of questions:-

1 Is the lower Longeron straight from sta75.5 - sta 168 or does it follow the pofile of the upper surface of
the wing.

2 At what exact sta does the upper Longeron start.

3 Where can i obtain accurate frame profile ordinates.

If anybody out there can help i would be most greatfull.

Regards VIPER190

 

[Nate]

Viper190,

There's a guy in Australia that has numerous warbird drawings on EBay. Costly, but might help you with your needs.
Nate

 

[Barrakooda]

You could try here, bit closer to you

fighter-plane-blueprints-plans.co.uk

 

[Monkey]

P-51D Mustang

here you go

 

[VIPER190]

Thanks for responce guys, but does anyone know if the drawings on EBay from Australia are the same as those
from Fighter-plane-blueprints-plans.co.uk
As I wouldn't want to buy the same set twice

Regards VIPER

 

[bigmac]

I bought both. The ones on eBay are better and clearer quality. There has been a lot said about these sets on various forums so there's no need to repeat it here. My money goes to the seller on eBay who is helpful and who seems to be supporting some CAD engineering modelling that is every bit as good as the Zero work which features on this site. The backer for the P-51 blueprints eBay seller is Flugwerk GmbH That by itself says it all. http://stores.ebay.com/FLUG-ARCHIV-20

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi
Just my personal view, but I aways go for the cheaper one, if it's the quality i need, i then don't buy the dearer one, and have money to buy more...

Also just my personal opinion theory,
But it seems that plans, manuals etc, are bought scanned and then the originals sold on, ( note this is not aimed at any one in particular ), so in theory, you could buy a cheaper one scanned by someone else from the same documents.

Also the original ww2 documents, all came from the same sources, so should in theory, be the same.
cheers
Jerry

 

[Geedee]

Viper

Check out my project listed on my signature block. Look at the first set of pictures on the first page and there is a schematic of the basic fusleage structure for a 51 D that might help you.

I have the full set of NAA blueprints for the '51 range that i got from ebay (quite a reasonable price as well !)and apart from about 40 odd that are too faint to see much info on...not bad out of 16400 plus drawings....they are quite a good set. It also helps that I have the full parts catalogue for the '51 so I can identify bits by part No's and then find the correct drawing.

When I can get my home pc rebuilt and working (I'm using the works one at the moment...ooops....teehee !) I will have access to my drawings and stuff and will have a look to try and answer your questions more fully

 

[Hugh_T]

Hi
Just my personal view, but I aways go for the cheaper one, if it's the quality i need, i then don't buy the dearer one, and have money to buy more...

Also the original ww2 documents, all came from the same sources, so should in theory, be the same.
cheers
Jerry

From my experience it has always been worthwhile paying slightly more for quality. It saves a lot of frustration trying to figure out details on the drawings.

But it seems that plans, manuals etc, are bought scanned and then the originals sold on, ( note this is not aimed at any one in particular ), so in theory, you could buy a cheaper one scanned by someone else from the same documents.

Actually they are not the same and I am not sure that owners of original material would be willing to sell the originals. Quality is very important if you intend to do any serious work based on original drawings. The main differences I find are those that skimp at the stage of scanning - there is a huge cost differential between the options mainly either just B&W or Grayscale - the latter being considerably more expensive but of superior quality.

For the OP - I also have the P51 set from Ebay and it is a very good set - I can have a look later today and see if I can answer your specific question.

 

[brewerjerry]

Actually they are not the same and I am not sure that owners of original material would be willing to sell the originals.

.

Hi
I have browsed the feedback on various e bay sellers of manuals, the original manual usually is sold on e bay, pdf copies of the item are for sale later.

later another e bay seller who had bought it, would have his scanned version for sale.

e bay may have hidden the buyer details, but checking feedback left later can reveal a lot.

In fact quite a few of my manuals have identical content, pages and Meg size to the dearer versions, and are just a new scan, i checked this using the above system of feedback left by the buyer of the items

But in the end we pay our money and take our choice,
By careful spending I can stretch my hobby budget a long way by dealing with the cheaper sellers.

cheers
jerry

 

[ppopsie]

Have you tried this?
ttp://www.sicuropublishing.com/servlet/the-Aircraft--Airframe-Blueprints/searchpath/33449/start/11/total/24/Categories

 

[bigmac]

I've bought from all of the aircraft document places whether on eBay or through a web-site and have been let down by ALL except the the below two sellers on eBay – who produce and sell the sharpest clearest, highest quality products by a big margin:

eBay Store - WARBIRDS AND TRAINS: RAILROAD EMPLOYEE TIMETABLES, RAILROAD PUBLIC TIMETABLES, ARMY AIR FORCE FIGHTERS

eBay Store - Plans: Blueprints, P-51, Fw190

Except for the above, the thing received is a blank CD or DVD with hand-writing on top and a jewel case. Sometimes I get a printed CD with amateurish looking art on top but mostly the packaging is rubbish. The contents are usually even worse. Either low res black and white pages that look like they've come from a 20 year old office copier machine or alternatively heavily pixelated color pages with lots of compression artefacts.

In my opinion, almost all of the aircraft document places sell shockingly bad products but the two that are on eBay are excellent. It is funny, but most people would expect the reverse to be true.

 

[2G's]

Looking @ R 164-1 to R164-6 of my microfilm drawings the lower longeron starts @ sta.75.51-248 and the upper @ about 80 as a guess, on the line drawings it doesn't give an exact station # atleast not on these drawings maybe on others, but there's about 30,000 drawings

 

[Hugh_T]

Hey guys
I'm in the process of producing drawings for a P51D Mustangincluding internal structure detail would be
greatfull if any of you guy's out there could help me with a couple of questions:-

3 Where can i obtain accurate frame profile ordinates.

If anybody out there can help i would be most greatfull.

Regards VIPER190

Am working on the P51 profiles..wont be ready for a while, but should be accurate to about 0.01mm if that is accurate enough for you.

 

[brewerjerry]

I've bought from all of the aircraft document places whether on eBay or through a web-site and have been let down by ALL except the the below two sellers on eBay – who produce and sell the sharpest clearest, highest quality products by a big margin:

eBay Store - WARBIRDS AND TRAINS: RAILROAD EMPLOYEE TIMETABLES, RAILROAD PUBLIC TIMETABLES, ARMY AIR FORCE FIGHTERS

Hi
Thanks might give the first one a try,
second one for me a big no.
Cheers
Jerry

 

[packardpursuit]

Both upper and lower longerons "start" at the rear of the canted firewall. The exact c/l location of longerons at rear of firewall (1/4" plate armour) is, in side view: Fuse. Station 75.510 at a point 15.375" below FRL (fuselage reference line) for lower, while upper is located (in same plane of firewall) at Fuse Sta. 81.010 at a point 8.250" above FRL.

Upper longeron c/l is, for all intents and purposes "Striaight" from firewall to Fuse Sta. 248, where it terminates, with some notable idiosincracies. At some point just aft of cockpit, the upper longeron c/l joggs down to 8.125" above FRL. Longeron layout is identical forP-51 B/C and D, however B/C (and earlier Mks) uppers physically stop (terminate) at Fuse. Sta. 232 (loads carried by vertical continuous side skins), while D carries thru to Fuse Sta.248. (no vertical cont.skin panels).

In side view longerons are angular, or all, point to point straight lines. In plan view they are both gently curved, from firewall to Fuse. Sta. 248.

Lower longeron angles upward to to a point at fuse. Sta. 102.75, from where it parallels the FRL (above wing) to Fuse Sta 168, where it cranks upward again to Fuslage Sta. 184, here it again parallels the FRL (approx 11.5" below FRL), to Fuse. Sta 248. The rear wing to fuselage fillet has a courious fin like projecton on it's top. That fin covers the rear lower longeron crank. Both cranks were changed (from P-51A configuration) when the wing was lowered 3", as part of engineering changes to accomodate Packard Merlin engine.

All hard dimensions are quoted from Commonwealth Aircraft Corp. LTD Report No. 3, page 1, dated 24/3/44. This appears to be identical in layout and form to typicalsimilar and numerous NAA Reports, only having the titles and date changed as needed, to reflect model CA17 18, instead of P-51D.

Hope it helps.
Charlie Neely

 

[packardpursuit]

I meant to add that station profiles (I'm assuming you mean x-sections for individual sta.?) are available in a fuselage loft for P-51B. It's in one of the DvD/CD collections. I have the NAA/USAAF microfilm (now available fron NASM) and several of the various DVD and CD's. There is more info in the didital formats, however the film is generallly clearer. Quite often the critical dimensions can be found but not quite legible. VERY FRUSTRATING!

By and large, the basic loft for B is same for D, however, it must be noted that aside from obvious differences in aft fuselage the nupper nose profile of D is subtley different than earlier B/C. As are some cowl panels.

 

[Spits]

LOL you should try Supermarine drawings...Now is that a piece of bug sh!t or 1.25"

 

[packardpursuit]

As it happens, I have some Spitfire drawings on paper and they are quite clear. However they are not complete, and that can be just as frustrating. Couldn't say what is worse, but just had to chuckle at your observation!

 

[Spits]

LOL yeah we have the scanned copies from Spitfire restorations so it is a hit and miss affair.Being studying the drawings for about 5 years and converting much of it to CAd and 3D for our project...
Spitfire Project A58-27