Passenger jet shot down over Ukraine

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i had to laugh because i was thinking the same thing...but in a different location. there is a huge russian speaking population in cleveland, oh.....but we might let him have that. the long and the short of it is who ever has the most leverage will get what they want barring someone drawing a line in the sand and putting powder in their muskets....which is leverage too but i dont see that as a viable option on a large scale. whatever the outcome is we will only know a portion of the deal as most it will be cut behind closed doors and not for public consumption.
 
I, too worry about the countries bordering Russia, especially those with enclaves of Russian-speakers. Even more so, those countries that were, until recently, Soviet, and, before Brest-Litovsk, part of the Russian Empire. Lenin didn't conquer Ukraine, Georgia, etc: he re-conquered them. Some of these were conquered as late as the 19th Century.

I worry less about countries which don't border Russia.
 
I understand that, but that can be done in another thread, so moderators can close that one if it becomes too political. My intention with this thread was not a political discussion.
 
michaelmaltby said:
CUT OFF PUTIN'S WORLD VISA card!

[h/t jm]
Click to expand...

At the moment the sanctions don't even amount to that.
They amount to travel bans and asset freezes imposed on some of Putin's cronies. I bet the Russians are shaking in their boots. Yesterday, as I predicted, the EU fell well short of imposing so called phase three sanctions. Instead it agreed to prepare by Thursday a list of possible options, including a potential arms embargo, limits on dual-technology sales and some undefined measures targeting the energy and financial sectors. Again, the Russians will be quaking in their boots at the prospect of EU officials preparing such a list. Even these sanctions are not going to be imposed, some watered down version may eventually gain a majority acceptance.

There is a common misconception that European borders are somehow set in stone. This is not so. Even a cursory examination of maps from the recent past, say 19th and 20th centuries, will show just how much they change.

Can anyone see a scenario in which at least some Ukrainian territory along the 1991 border does not join the Crimea, falling under Russian control? If you can I'd love to hear it.

Steve
 
International Airport "Kharkiv" ceremony of farewell to the dead in a plane crash "Malaysian Airlines" near Donetsk.
On the runway in a number of the Kharkiv airport installed several coffins. Around them stood guard of honor cadets.
Today in the Netherlands sent the first batch of bodies. On the runway prepared for this two transport aircraft.
According to the head of the Netherland expert committee Ian Thunder, just today plan to send 40 tel. In one of the planes they were placed 24 in the other - 16.
At a farewell ceremony attended by representatives of the Netherlands, Malaysia, Canada, Australia, USA. Diplomats in turn made ​​with words of condolence. Held a minute's silence.
After a minute of silence, an honor guard raised his coffins on the plane. The first aircraft with the remains of those killed in the crash took off liner.

R.I.P....
 
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The atmosphere here at 16.00 was impressive. Churchbells ringing and then the silence.

The first 40 bodies arrived at the kazerne (=army camp) at Hilversum half an hour ago. There they will be stored in cooled containers and the identification will take place. The 1.5h drive from Eindhoven to Hilversum was very emotional with lots off people along the road and people throwing flowers. These convoys will go on for 3 days, hopefully on friday the last one. We're still not sure how many bodies were really recovered. Ukrain sources say 282, our own people say "at least 200".

Big thanks go to our Australian friendes who help us, providing a C17 plane and also further cooperating in our difficult mission to get all the victims out of there.

One note of admiration for our minister of foreign affairs who is putting much effort in this. Here is his speech, 2 days ago at the UN. A true representative of our nation.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcGCBHNcKyI
 
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Very heartening to see some dignity being restored to the deceased and bereaved in very difficult circumstances. Some of the statements by politicians has have been nauseating I wish they would belt up until they have real hard facts to discuss.
 
Today the 3rd day of victims being flown in.
The amazing thing is that they are transported over 100 km from Eindhoven to Hilversum. And every day, up until now, so 3 days already, thousands of people stand at the side of those 100 km, watching, throwing flowers, crying and applauding. There is not a kilometre on that road without people during those trips. It's hearth warming, impressive. Don't know how to describe it. It's really amazing. This disaster touches the people more than anything in the last 20 years.
 
There is a few Finnish proverbs:
"Punainen on kaakonkulma, tulta, verta ennustaa"
(Red is the south eastern corner, predicting fire and blood)

And
"Ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistais"
(Russian is a russian even if he is fried on butter).

And what my mother told me, when it was very cold:
"Kylmää kun ryssän helvetissä"
( Cold as in russian hell).

All my life I have tried to be without prejudice about Russians , but now I'm beginning to think, that all these proverbs, dating decades and centuries old , may have some thruth after all.
 
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