Raptor vs Eurofighter (1 Viewer)

[Matt308]

DoD has issued a RFP for AESA in the F-15E.

 

[plan_D]

Will it be getting the AN/APG-63 like the C model, or a different version?

 

[Matt308]

Don't know. It is an RFP at this juncture.

With multiple models (-63, -77, -79, -80, -81) to choose from it will depend on the mission, capability, integration and cost.

 

[comiso90]

Oui.

Looks like the Japanese are playing a poliitcal game. They announced that they will buy Typhoons if they can't get F-22s. Now that should be interesting. That would topple the US monopoly for the JSDF.

.

We'll if things get hot with North Korea or China... There is a chance that our Japanese friends will get involved. I'd rather see them flying F-22s

.

 

[Matt308]

Me too. However, we could just negotiate F-35s. I would think that would be adequate.

 

[comiso90]

Adequate for taking on the Chinese J-10.. but the MiG35 and SU-35.... I think that will be a challenge.

Is Russia exporting latest generation stuff to China?

..

 

[Matt308]

I don't think so. Latest gen stuff that they sell to everybody else. But certainly not their latest. China is too much of a potential threat and with her growing economy it must be making Russia more than a little nervous.

There is a lot of oil untapped just north of China.

 

[Glider]

Go on, let them buy the Typhoon.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Typhoon would be albe to handle any Chinese or N. Korean threat anyhow.

 

[Matt308]

Yep.

 

[SoD Stitch]

Will it be getting the AN/APG-63 like the C model, or a different version?

According to souces, they will be getting the AN/APG-63(V)3; it is the most advanced version of the AN/APG-63. They have discontinued manufacture of the AN/APG-70. Quoted from Wikipedia:

"The APG-63(V)3 radar is a more modern variant of the APG-63(V)2, applying the same AESA technology utilized in Raytheon's APG-79. The (V)3 is designed for retrofit into F-15C and F-15E aircraft, and is also planned for use in Singapore's new F-15SG aircraft. Raytheon delivered the first prototype APG-63(V)3 system in June 2006."

 

[T4.H]

To answer one of the questions...

End of 2004 they made a test, one Typhoon (two seat version) against two US F15E (in dodfight). Both were outmaneuvered and simulated shot down after short time.
Eurofighter EF 2000 - Wikipedia

Next Question

Adequate for taking on the Chinese J-10.. but the MiG35 and SU-35.... I think that will be a challenge.

DERA-study: Typhoon vs. Su35 shot down ratio...4.5 SU35 to 1 Thyphoon
Eurofighter EF 2000 - Wikipedia

As I know, the Thyphoon is little bit better in al properties (or will be soon) than the Raptor with one exeption. The Raptor has better stealth properties.
Little bit longer range, better avionic, three times cheaper, passive infrared system (IRST system), much bigger load, pilots can carry a water filled anti g suit (F22 also?), much better in dogfight, shorter airfield needed, climbs faster, both have supercruise feature etc...
The F22 less or more is only a Fighter, the Typhoon can be used as a fighter and as a bomber.
Nowadays fighter-bomber are needed.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont see how a Raptor will be less effective as a fighter than the Typhoon because the Raptor has thrust vectoring which will help make it more maneuverable. Correct me if I am wrong but the Typhoon does not have thrust vectoring nor does it have stealth. F-22 is a tad bit above the Typhoon.

 

[plan_D]

Thanks, Stitch.

Well, the Typhoon will have AESA by 2010 - Britain's tight-fisted leadership forcing them to be behind once again.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Nowadays fighter-bomber are needed.

 

[drgondog]

Many don't understand that Matt

You guys are dead on. The radar, target acquisition and lethality of the missiles are where we thought they should be when we abandoned guns prior to Viet Nam.

The dominant trends are force multipliers for existing and future technology stacks and the unmanned fighter is not far behind in context of threat horizon in 2020s.

The Raptor is king as long as Stealth and stand off capabilities are uncompromised. It's only when you get in close enough to acquire with mark one eyeballs that the ACM and pilot skill become crucial.

The F-15 can compete better against the Typhoon than the F-22 for the above reasons.

 

[drgondog]

Subject: fighting against an F-22 Raptor

A pilots' analysis of dog fighting against an F-22:

Sprey said his briefing focused on the time-tested factors that define an effective fighter plane:

(1) See the enemy first;

(2) outnumber the enemy;

(3) outmaneuver the enemy to fire, and

(4) kill the enemy quickly.

Having spent two weeks fighting two Raptors against 6-8 of our latest technology F-15Cs with datalink, AIM-9X, helmet mounted cueing system and the latest radar software, we



1) ... never acquired the Raptor with our radars before our eyes. We occasionally saw it in the cons at 60+K, but by that time we were already dead.



2) ... outnumbered the Raptors 3-1 or 4-1, and never even got a valid shot off on one.



3) ... found the only BFM setup even worth attempting against a Raptor is a 6K offensive setup, and you're just trying to keep from going defensive. If you're at 3K approaching a gun wez, he will stop so fast you can't help but overshoot. If you're at 9K offensive, he turns around and shoots you before you get to his turn circle. No need to even talk about when he starts offensive.



4) ... knowing the above info, killing the Raptor quickly wasn't an option, we couldn't kill even one!



I was convinced. We were even fighting some of the initial lots of airplanes, before their data links were working correctly and they had older software. I haven't fought the newer lots flown at Tyndall or Langley, but I can assure you they are even more lethal.



Sortie rates are on the rise, software stability is on the rise. All I can say to the critics is in 20 years when this airplane goes to war it will still dominate, just like the Eagle did when we employed it 18 years after fielding!

 

[mkloby]

Great post drgondog. Some good info from an airwarrior. T4 - I may actually print your post and use it as toilet paper.

 

[Matt308]

Now that was funny.

 

[SoD Stitch]

Subject: fighting against an F-22 Raptor

A pilots' analysis of dog fighting against an F-22:

Sprey said his briefing focused on the time-tested factors that define an effective fighter plane:

(1) See the enemy first;

(2) outnumber the enemy;

(3) outmaneuver the enemy to fire, and

(4) kill the enemy quickly.

Having spent two weeks fighting two Raptors against 6-8 of our latest technology F-15Cs with datalink, AIM-9X, helmet mounted cueing system and the latest radar software, we



1) ... never acquired the Raptor with our radars before our eyes. We occasionally saw it in the cons at 60+K, but by that time we were already dead.



2) ... outnumbered the Raptors 3-1 or 4-1, and never even got a valid shot off on one.



3) ... found the only BFM setup even worth attempting against a Raptor is a 6K offensive setup, and you're just trying to keep from going defensive. If you're at 3K approaching a gun wez, he will stop so fast you can't help but overshoot. If you're at 9K offensive, he turns around and shoots you before you get to his turn circle. No need to even talk about when he starts offensive.



4) ... knowing the above info, killing the Raptor quickly wasn't an option, we couldn't kill even one!



I was convinced. We were even fighting some of the initial lots of airplanes, before their data links were working correctly and they had older software. I haven't fought the newer lots flown at Tyndall or Langley, but I can assure you they are even more lethal.



Sortie rates are on the rise, software stability is on the rise. All I can say to the critics is in 20 years when this airplane goes to war it will still dominate, just like the Eagle did when we employed it 18 years after fielding!

I had read something similar to the above a few weeks ago in an issue of Smithsonian Air Space magazine (or Air Combat Magazine, I can't remember which); the F-15C pilots participating in the Red Flag were frustrated even though they'd been the "top dogs" of Red Flag for years.

Quote:

"When the Raptor finds itself in a dogfight, it is no longer beyond visual range, but the advantage of stealth isn't diminished. It maintains "high ground" even at close range.

"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me."

Lt. Col. Larry Bruce, 65th AS commander, admits flying against the Raptor is a very frustrating experience. Reluctantly, he admitted "it's humbling to fly against the F-22," - humbling, not only because of its stealth, but also its unmatched maneuverability and power."