Russia and V-E Day

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One should also not forget that western Allies seriously counted on Soviet Union joining the fight against Japan after German defeat. Why would they risk confronting Stalin when war was still going on and the Soviets were still needed in the fight? Also in 1945 western public opinion was pretty much in Soviet favor because of their heroic struggle against the Nazis.
 
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we witnessed U.S. led military interventions all around the world - from former Yugoslavia to the Middle East.
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The former Yugoslavia under Tito didn't want to be a Stalinist puppet and accepted the offer of Marshal Aid from the USA, which Stalin got mad about. Not US intervention, just not wanting to become dominated by the Soviet Union - and why not? Look at what happened in Hungary and Czechoslovakia when they stood up to the Russians. Yes, the USA have dipped in where they have not been welcome, but pot, kettle, black...

You know Imalko, you guys should stop rabbiting on about the United States and all the bad stuff it has done and as being a threat to your security and consider what might happen if the Russians unleashed their aggression on your country, which is a lot closer and provides more of a threat to your national security than the USA does at this point in time.
 
I fully acknowledge and appreciate US aid to Tito's Yugoslavia after breakup with Stalin. It's undeniable this helped my country not to share the fate of Czechoslovakia or Hungary. You misunderstood my point, because I was talking about events which took place after Tito's death. About bloody breakup of Yugoslavia in the nineties and foreign involvement in it. It was USA and NATO that unleashed their aggression (as you put it) on my country in 1999, not Russia.
 
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"....It was USA and NATO that unleashed their aggression (as you put it) on my country in 1999, not Russia."

Whatever the historical rationale, there was a mess of nasty stuff going on in (your country) former Yugoslavia in 1999 which shouldn't have been happening in a civilized, sophisticated society like Europe 's .... and which Europe was not addressing effectively ... as always ... the USA got called in ... Canada too. You guys start a fire and then blame the firemen for meddling ... sounds like Missouri or Detroit where they riot and then snipe at the firemen.

It's a shame what happened after the strong man's grip slipped ... he held it all together. But it's a shame you couldn't manage a velvet dissolution like Czechoslovakia. Simplistic, I know, but that's how it appears from North America's privileged perspective, Igor. :)

MM
Proud Canadian
 
It seems I'm repeatedly being drawn back into debate which by now have nothing to do with VE day. :)

Whatever the historical rationale, there was a mess of nasty stuff going on in (your country) former Yugoslavia in 1999 which shouldn't have been happening in a civilized, sophisticated society like Europe 's .... and which Europe was not addressing effectively ... as always ... the USA got called in ... Canada too. You guys start a fire and then blame the firemen for meddling ...
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Agreed with the first sentence... However - and here's the core of our different viewpoint I believe - called in by who? Authorized by who? Self appointed is more like it. But the greatest problem is that, once they got involved, they weren't impartial. To use your analogy with firemen, it's like putting down the fire in one part of the town but additionally stirring up the flames in the other part and letting it burn. I suspect something like that happens when one isn't really a firefighter, just pretending to be, and pursues his own agenda instead.

It's a shame what happened after the strong man's grip slipped ... he held it all together. But it's a shame you couldn't manage a velvet dissolution like Czechoslovakia. Simplistic, I know, but that's how it appears from North America's privileged perspective...
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Finally we agree on something Michael. It really is a shame. I think so too. However, there's too much history, too much bad blood, too much background behind it all here in the Balkans spanning back to the years of WW2 and far beyond. And I'm afraid it's not over yet (just look what's currently happening in Macedonia). It's too much to elaborate here and now, and also something which can't be easily understood from "simplistic and privileged North America's perspective". But that won't stop you from meddling, right? ;)


Since we mentioned Tito, I remembered something about him which might be just apocryphal, but maybe it's true. After breakup with Stalin in 1948, the Soviets made several attempts on Tito's life. After all of them failed and assassins were caught, Tito allegedly send a note to Stalin saying: "Stop sending people to kill me. If you don't, I'll be forced so send one of mine to Moscow. And rest assured I won't have to send another one."
True of false, it just proves what a world class player he was...
 
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Just finished reading "The Siege of Vienna - 1683". The centuries long campaign up and down the Danube between the Christian Hapsburgs and the Moslem Turkish Ottomans read like nothing I've ever read about any campaign. The Balkans region is a geopolitical fault line between political/cultural "plates" ... as in tectonics. I think you over simplify the root causes of your regional upheaval. Blaming the US or NATO for intervention doesn't make y'all innocent by-standers. Tito wasn't Prince Eugene
 
I think you over simplify the root causes of your regional upheaval. Blaming the US or NATO for intervention doesn't make y'all innocent by-standers.
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Read again my post Michael. I just said the opposite from that...
I'm not absolving us (the people of this region) from anything. What I'm saying is that biased and one-sided western approach is not solving anything and probably making things worse. The Balkan "powder keg" will explode again sooner rather than later with that approach.

Care to elaborate Tito/Prince Eugene comparison...? I'm not sure I understand your point.
 
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"...Care to elaborate Tito/Prince Eugene comparison...? "

Only that he was an accomplished soldier, strategist and 'man of the occasion' and the Hapsburg citizenry came to believe that he represented the defense of their empire. Tito was all of the above but the integrity and unity of a Yugoslav nation couldn't simply reside with one charismatic leader. Hapsburgs lamented "where's our next Prince Eugene" .... meaning ... savior.
 
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I'm pretty sure we knew generally what we expected from Stalin, but I'm also pretty sure there was no advance warning of the exact nature of what was going on. And as was stated above, you can only concentrate your efforts in so many places at one time.

The U.S.A. fought a holding war in the Pacific until Germany was defeated and then concentrated the main efforts in nthe pacific until that theater was won.

After VJ Day, for the U.S.A. to continue with any warlike effort, we would have had to declare war on somone else to continue the wartiime funding of the level of effort that was deployed in the Pacific. Lacking that, the main effort was to return the vast majority of it home and get back to peacetime spending levels.

However, despite the above, the Western Allies DID let Poland suffer ... though I'm not sure they could have prevented it even with a deliberate full scale invasion. When they DID declare war a little while later, it took a full six years to accomplish getting there with the combined efforts of the major Allied powers.
 
We should never forget the 'small people' in all of this.
Just today I was contacted by a celebrant friend. She had just met the family of a gentleman who recently passed away at the age of 92.
The family knew he had volunteered for the Navy at 18, served on the Arctic convoys, and had recently been presented with the Ushakov medal by the Russian Federation. That was about all they knew, not even the name of any of his ships. Unsurprisingly he never talked about the convoys, only about the good times he had enjoyed in Liverpool.
To say I was happy to give my friend a little information on these convoys, to attempt to put this man's service in to some context would be an understatement. He was just an ordinary bloke doing his bit, but it mattered, it was important, and we must not forget.
Steve
 
Some polish are dumbs nazi start to exterminate and enslave the polish
and prone their lands and now polish marionetes complains on communist dictature ? Its grows in populations under soviet "occupation" .

The germans too hypocrite... listen you start a war of genocide for vital space in the est start the extermination of russians and many others ... And when you lost you get lucky because the evil Stalin dont agree a revenge "eyes for eyes blood for blood " that should be a extermination of all germans under soviet occupation or minimum 20 milions of germans
 
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George88 said:
Some polish are dumbs nazi start to exterminate and enslave the polish
and prone their lands and now polish marionetes complains on communist dictature ? Its grows in populations under soviet "occupation" .

The germans too hypocrite... listen you start a war of genocide for vital space in the est start the extermination of russians and many others ... And when you lost you get lucky because the evil Stalin dont agree a revenge "eyes for eyes blood for blood " that should be a extermination of all germans under soviet occupation or minimum 20 milions of germans
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Wtf are you on about? You think communist occupation was a walk in the park? Have been living under a stone the last 70 years?
 
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George88 said:
Facts ? You mistake the losses of a revolution and civil war to Stalins purges ...
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30 milion were lost in th USSR between 1926 and 1936 alone, all thanks to your beloved Stallin. And it's hard to contribute those losses to civil war or revolution. Compared to Stalin, mr. Adolf just started to play.
I suggest you take your revisionist commi views elsewhere.
 
Marcel said:
30 milion were lost in th USSR between 1926 and 1936 alone, all thanks to your beloved Stallin. Compared to Stalin, mr. Adolf just started to play.
I suggest you take your revisionist commi views elsewhere.
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Source please
 
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