Russia and V-E Day

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by v2, May 10, 2015.

  1. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    #1 v2, May 10, 2015
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
    On this day Russia commemorates victory day over Nazi Germany, and the liberation of Europe from German occupation.

    In 1944, while on their way to Berlin, Soviet soldiers raped millions of women and children, their ages ranged from 8-80.

    The USSR also deported millions to the Gulag, murdered countless of innocent people simply because they were not Communists and ethnically cleansed tens of millions of people from their ancestral lands and homes.

    All of these crimes took place between the years 1944-1945, while WW2 was still going on.

    Yet to this day, useful idiots and Soviet/Russian/Communist apologists maintain that the Red Army did people in East and central Europe a huge favor when it "liberated" them from the German occupation.

    The only countries in Europe that were truly liberated after WW2 were the ones that the western allies reached, those that had Soviet forces occupying them, simply replaced one brutal, fascist, murderous occupation for another.

    But unlike the Nazi occupation which lasted for 4 year, the Soviet occupation would last for 47 years.
     

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  2. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Thats sick, that last pic. Some one actually made a statue?

    I think Russia should celebrate the end of the war regardless of what happened afterwards. That is not what the day is about. I'm sorry that the USA, Britain and all the other Allies couldn't participate more.
     
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  3. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to tell...
     
  4. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Remember, according to what they're teaching in schools there, the western Allies little or nothing to do with the Soviet Union's victorious struggle against Nazi Germany during the Great Patriotic War. :lol:
     
  5. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    Lend Lease program only ...
     
  6. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    war on the eastern front was brutal, and it was never going to end well after 22 June 1941. The Russians themselves lost in excess of 25 million, more than everyone else combined, except China.

    Life was always cheap in this part of the world, the Soviets continued that approach.

    It was better than what the Germans had in mind had they won, but not by much


    Yep, I guess im one of those apologists and liars. Thank god the russians won, and then lost. 50 years too late
     
  7. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    #7 parsifal, May 10, 2015
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
    Nope, they dont. My wife was a product of the Soviet era education system, and they freely admit to the attrocities committed in their country's name, and of the military assistance provided by the allies. Many red necked Russians choose to deny that, I know, but it is NOT part of their education system. they also point out, correctly, that the fate of the world was decided on the battlefields of the East, and that they did that they did that without not much help from us. We sat back 1942-4 and let them bleed and die until we were ready. It made military sense to do that, and most Russian curriculum include that, but some dont, Western cconservative press, particularly US neoconservative stuff really picks up on that and loves to run with it.

    Dont believe most western commentaries about this stuff. there is an agenda, particularly given Putins behaviour of late. Only if youve been there and spoken directly to the people being asccused of this rubbish directly should you make so called authoritative statements
     
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  8. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    I do recall Poland being invaded by more than one country. I also recall the invasion of Finland and the occupation of the Baltic States.
     
  9. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I have been over there and I can tell you that the younger generation is being led to believe that the Western Allies' contribution was minimal at best.

    They are also being led to believe that the western Allies, the U.S. in particular, were involved only to promote "imperialist" expansionism and Stalin had to work hard to protect the people from the "criminal" Roosevelt.

    True history will acknowledge that ALL of the Allies (west and east) made immense contributions and sacrifices to defeat Germany.
     
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  10. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    I havent been there since the late 80s, and my wife is now 44 years old. Perhaps a more accurate version of what happened was around at that time than it its now. Putin is a very bad man, so I would not put it pat them to be re-writing history .

    I agree completely with your last statement
     
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  11. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Russia won the Battle of Britain?

    People paid the ultimate price, to get us where we are today, people on both sides will always twist and turn to suit them, but either way you look at it, without either of them, we wouldn't be where we are today...unfortunately, crimes was committed, which can never, which should never, be swept under the carpet!
     
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  12. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Did Britain break the back of the Wehrmacht at any time? Which nation caused more grief to the LW overall until 1944.

    No-one can claim total credit for the defeat of Germany. No-one came out of that war with completely clean hands. Russian people paid a very heavy price for their war. They deserve a little legend in my opinion
     
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  13. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    I worked for a while in Russia, the Moscow manager of the company was a keen modeller. He knew much more than me about British world war 2 tanks because he had made models of all the tanks used by the Soviet army. He was about the same age as me (now 55) and as a young man he was in the same situation as we in the west were, much information was suppressed. When I was a child even simple things like LW losses were estimates.

    From what I have read and discussed with Russians, Europe has little idea of how brutal the Nazis were in the East...this gave birth to a counter brutality. The Soviet leadership was always brutal, the Nazis allowed soviet leadership brutality to enemies to become widespread.
     
  14. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Russia could not have won without the assistance of the western allies.

    The western allies could not have won without the help of Russia.

    The Russians have zero understanding of the U-Boat war in the Atlantic and how that had to be won before the US could get into the fight.

    The Russians have zero understanding of the state of the US military in 1941 and how that had to be redressed before we even sent troops to Europe.
     
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  15. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I might also mention that there are others who share this "new age" history, including a British "historian" by the name of Geoffrey Roberts.

    Some of the stuff he drivels makes me ill - here's a quote from his interview recently with RT (Russian Times):
    “The Soviet Union could have defeated Nazi Germany on its own, but it would have taken it a lot longer and at much greater price and, of course, it would have taken the country much longer to recover after World War II. Yes, the Soviet Union did not ultimately need its allies to win the war, but its alliance with particularly the United States and Great Britain helped it to win the war a lot quicker than it would have otherwise been the case.”

    Another article to look at, would be a piece that Pravda did about two years ago. VERY informative if you're a revisionist.
    Without Russia, World War II goes on - English pravda.ru

    What's disturbing, is that this sort of garbage isn't on conspiracy blogs and .ORG websites, it's filtering into mainstream news and information networks.
     
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  16. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    It's a difficult discussion and it's a pity that we don't have any Russians on the forum anymore.
    My view: yes, I am thankful to the Russians for making it easier on the Western powers to free my country. Without them, we would have remained under Nazi suppression even longer (maybe forever) and my country would have suffered greatly. I don't believe any of the Allied countries alone could have re-conquered the whole of Europe without help. Without the Russians I think the war would have lasted for many years more or maybe forever. On the other hand, I don't believe the Communist occupation of Eastern Europe was anything better than the Nazi suppression. Especially in East Germany, but also in the other countries. I remember having to send clothes and food to Poland in the '80ies, which tells you how bad it really was. I feel for our friends in Poland and other Eastern European countries for having had to endure that Soviet occupation for way too long.

    I really hope that we're not going back to that situation. I hope the Russian people come back to their senses and I hope the Western powers will have the wisedom to prevent another West-East cold war (or God forbid, a hot war). We've been there and done that.
     
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  17. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, it is not rare to see not a few liars in the eastern part of Eurasia.
    That is tradition and no way to escape but listen to them well and do nothing for them.
     
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  18. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    Dear friends... our, Polish, point of view:


    While in Europe people are commemorating "Victory" day, a lot of people in Poland are commemorating "Western-betrayal" day.

    The reason why WW2 started in the first place was because Germany invaded Poland in 1939, after Poland refused to bow down to Germany's threats.


    The Poles, who were betrayed by their western allies, France and the UK, fought bravely on for four weeks until the USSR invaded it as well, and inflicted heavy casualties on the German Nazi army.

    Even though it was beaten, Poland was not defeated and made an enormous contribution in the struggle against Nazi Germany.

    The Poles were the first to crack Germany's Enigma code.

    Polish pilots tipped the scale at the "Battle of Britain", when they shot down hundreds of German planes.

    The Polish resistance movement, the "Home Army" supplied key intelligence to the allies and was instrumental in sabotaging and delaying German transports and supplies to the eastern front.

    Hundreds of thousands of Poles fought in the allies' armies, and were usually used as crack troops in difficult battles.

    The Polish underground was the first to alert the world about the holocaust.

    Unlike many other countries which were conquered by Germany during the war, like France, Poland never cooperated with the German occupiers in any way.

    Despite all that and despite the fact that it was the first ally in the war against Nazi Germany, the US and the UK choose to betray the Poles and sell them to Stalin already in 1943, in the Teheran conference.

    They kept this decision secret so as to make sure the Poles will keep on fighting until the very end of the war, which they did, bravely.

    By the end of WW2, 6 million Poles were murdered, 3 million Catholic Poles and 3 million Jewish Poles.

    The country which was the first to stand up Nazi Germany, the country which never compromised on its morals and honour, as a nation and as a people, ended up under a brutal, murderous, Stalinist occupation, which a lot of Poles considered was as bad if not worse than the Nazi occupation...
     

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  19. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Everyone is making valid points and maybe there is some discussion there, but a celebration of defeat over an evil regime by an alliance of the superpowers of the world just cannot be overlooked. Everybody has a valid point, but there should be some celebration and back-slapping on a job well done - at the least.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  20. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    My two cents... Our Polish friends have good reasons for resentment as their ordeals in the war were particularly hard and were fallowed with great disappointments afterwards. However, you can't allow grievances of the past to cloud your judgement. One can't honestly believe that decades of Communist rule were no better then the Nazi occupation. Had the occupation lasted that long I doubt the Polish nation would even be in existence today.

    We should look at this Victory Day for what it really is - a day when greater evil was finally defeated by combined effort of the free nations of the world (yes, even the Russians like it or not) and to honor all those who lost their lives in the struggle.
     
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