Russian military historian blames Poland for WWII

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by v2, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    By MIKE ECKEL – 3 days ago

    MOSCOW (AP) — As the Kremlin presses a campaign to recast Russia's 20th century history in a more favorable light, a research paper published Thursday on the Defense Ministry's Web site blamed Poland for starting World War II.

    The unorthodox reading of history appears to be the latest effort by Russian historians to defend the Soviet Union and its leaders, especially their role in what Russians call the Great Patriotic War. Poland condemned the research paper.

    Russia has angrily rejected claims that a Stalin-era famine in Ukraine amounted to genocide, and Russia's Supreme Court recently turned down an appeal to reopen an investigation into the massacre by Soviet secret police of Polish military officers and intellectuals in Russia's Katyn forest during World War II.

    The generally accepted view is that Poland was a victim rather than the aggressor in the conflict, and that Adolf Hitler's 1939 invasion of Poland marked the start of the war.

    Many Western historians believe Hitler was encouraged to invade by the treaty of nonaggression signed by Moscow and Berlin, called the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, which secretly divided eastern and western Europe into spheres of influence.

    Hitler's pact with the Soviet dictator Josef Stalin was signed on Aug. 24, 1939. Germany invaded Poland Sept. 1.

    Blaming Poland would deny Russia played a role in starting the war by sealing the secret accord.

    The research paper posted on Russia's Defense Ministry Web site is not an official government statement. But the author is listed as Col. Sergei Kovalyov, director of the scientific-research department of military history, part of the Institute of Military History of the Ministry of Defense.

    Ministry spokesman Col. Alexander Drobyshevsky told the Interfax news agency that analytical articles posted on the ministry's Web site do not necessarily reflect the ministry's official position.

    The paper, titled "Fictions and Falsifications in Evaluating the USSR's Role On the Eve of World War II," recounts how in the run-up to Germany's invasion of Poland on Sept. 1, 1939, Hitler demanded that Poland turn over control of the city of Danzig as well as a land corridor between Germany and the territory now known as Kaliningrad.

    "Everyone who has studied the history of World War II without bias knows that the war began because of Poland's refusal to satisfy Germany's claims," he writes.

    Kovalyov called the demands "quite reasonable." He observed: "The overwhelming majority of residents of Danzig, cut off from Germany by the Treaty of Versailles, were Germans who sincerely wished for reunification with their historical homeland."

    Kovalyov, who works in St. Petersburg, could not be immediately located for comment.

    Arseny Roginsky, a historian with the rights group Memorial, said Kovalyov was entitled to his opinion "and he shouldn't be thrown in prison for that."

    "But if this indeed reflects the position of the government — in as much that it appeared on the Web site of the Ministry of Defense — then this is indeed dangerous and shameful," he said.

    Poland contacted the Russian ambassador in Warsaw for an explanation.

    "This sort of exotic interpretation of historical facts appears in various marginal Russian language periodicals from time to time," Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman Piotr Paszkowski told The Associated Press. "For obvious reasons we don't react. This time, however, we asked the Russian ambassador in Warsaw for an explanation because the materials were posted on an official Web site of the Russian Defense Ministry, which could imply that it is the ministry's official stance."

    Paszkowski said a deputy minister in Poland's Foreign Ministry spoke with the Russian ambassador, and soon after the Russian Defense Ministry posted a statement that the analytical material on the ministry's Web site was not the ministry's official position.

    Paszkowski said Warsaw now considers the issue closed.

    source: The Associated Press
     
  2. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'm still at a loss how Polands rejection of Germany's request caused Russia to invade?????

    Surely nobody could be this stupid to believe this crap??
     
  3. Konigstiger205

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    Count on the Russians to make themselves as heroes, even when they are not. I'm not saying that they were bad guys, but they should take responsibility for all their actions as all countries that participated in WW2 did.
     
  4. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    Because the old regime is gone and all the perpetrators are probably deceased, I don't think there will ever be any consequences for the homocides, and genocides of the Russians, Poles, and Ukrainians. It would be very interesting if there was a formal commission to investigate and formally document these tragedies.
     
  5. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Christ, what a load of crap. Like Viking said, how does Poland's refusal to Germany give way to Russia's invasion.
     
  6. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

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    #6 RabidAlien, Jun 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
    Good Lord, are there actually people out there who believe this???? Maybe this guy (he had that brilliant alien-spacecraft-vs-asteroid theory)...
     

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  7. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Well that is something, really intelligent analysis of the events the unfolded before the start of the war. Unsurprisingly the Russians are innocent in all of this because it is a Russian historian.
     
  8. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    "Russian military historian blames Poland for WWII".....:rolleyes:

    That's like blaming American and Filipino POWs for the Bataan Death March!

    At least the USA hasn't cornered the market on clueless historians!

    TO
     
  9. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    lol A-Fricken-Men to that!
     
  10. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Keyword here is "yet"...

    As far as that Russian historian...in order to be a historian, you have to study and research historical facts and evidence before you can draw a conclusion. However, to be a fictional author, all you need is an imigination and a capacity to sell people your bullsh!t...

    This Russian clown is the latter of the two...

    And so, Poland started WWII...nice, and I suppose the brave and patriotic people's army held off the blood-thirsty Fins who were trying to invade mother Russia as well?
     
  11. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Considering the PC world and all the revisionists, that's not far from the truth Grau.
     
  12. wheelsup_cavu

    wheelsup_cavu Well-Known Member

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    :thumbright: I concur.

    Wheelsup
     
  13. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    Its a 'bit' agenda-ridden, but there is some truth in it. If you study Polish internal and external politics between the two World Wars, it was asking for trouble. Just as WW1 ended, Poland was trying to snap territories from both the newly formed USSR, and the new Weimar Germany.

    Interwar relations were far from happy, as the Poles, now governed by an ultra-right wing military dictator, saw themselves as some sort of new great power in the region (with the bigger dogs, ie. the Habsburg Empire, Prussia/Germany and Russia/USSR out of the picture) and acted as such. Territorial disputes continued over Silesia, and some Czech territories. Ethnic minorities now living in Poland, esp. Germans and Ukrainians, were treated bad, and sometimes, even brutally (there were a couple of concentration camps for them, as well as communist). Poland was always in the vanguard of any anti-Soviet or anti-German alliance, including a Polish suggestion for a 'pre-emptive' against Germany in mid-1930s, but when this was not supported by France et others, it didn't really stop Poland from slicing off some territories from Czechoslovakia when Hitler crushed the Czechoslovakian state (which in itself was BTW not very different from Poland in its internal politics and ultra-nationalistic attitude for minorities, only even more complicated with the Czech hegemony, and the Slovaks sidelined) in 1938/39.

    So, I have some serious reservations about the Poland being a victim part, and in this regard, I agree with the post-Soviet stuff, even if its blatantly just about whitewashing Soviet-Russian acts; OTOH, if you have hostile relations towards ALL your neighbours, and conveniently ignore that two of them are just bigger dogs (see self-dillusional expectations in Poland about marching in Berlin in 1939..), then I say there is justice in saying that in the end, you brought it on yourself. After all, actively making both Russia and Germany your enemies, and giving them a lot of really good excuses to step up against the common enemy was just plainly stupid way to conduct foreign politics.
     
  14. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    Some very good points, Kurfurst. The Polish military was strong for a WWI era military, but was not ready for an armored, motorized blitzkreig. They may have been overconfident, but they would have been overrun by either the Germans or the Communists eventually. Both aggressors had an eye on territories to expand into.
     
  15. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    More historical revelations from Russia....

    On Sunday 22nd at the occasion of National Day of Rememberance and Grief the main TV "Rossija" broadcasted a program "Ribbentrop-Molotov pact: historical inquiry".

    Russian state television has broadcast a report in which it accuses Poland of collaboration with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union. The report says that the government in Warsaw was in a secret alliance with Nazi Germany and japan to invade the Soviet Union.
    Today Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians celebrate National Remembrance and Mourning Day to commemorate victims of WW II, popularly known as the Great Patriotic War. To mark the occasion, as well as the 70th anniversary of the signing of Ribbentrop – Molotow pact, Russian television has broadcast a reportage which claims to reveal a “great mystery”.
    The journalists claim that it was not Molotow’s intention to sign the pact with the Third Reich - an agreement which effectively sealed Poland fate - but he was forced to do so because the USSR was in danger from an invasion by Poland.
    They cite documents, yet to be made public, which “prove” that Poles conspired with the Nazis and planned to attack the Soviet Union. Japan was also involved in the plot and its role was to invade the eastern borders of the USRR.
    The report “clearly shows” that the Ribbentrop – Molotow pact was a necessity, saving the USRR from Poland’s aggression and helped regain indigenous Russian lands, which had been seized by Poland.

    Poland’s embassy in Moscow has said it will take necessary steps in response to the allegations.
     
  16. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    Actually Poland was invaded because they'd stolen all the secrets to the Nazi Flying Saucers. I can prove this with some documents I wrote last Thursday.
     
  17. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

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    :lol::lol:
     
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