Ta 152H-1 vs P-51H

Discussion in 'Old Threads' started by Soren, Jul 18, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ta 152H-1 vs P-51H

    Focke Wulf Ta 152H-1
    [​IMG]

    Ta 152H-1 Statistics:

    Empty weight: 4,031 kg
    Fully loaded weight: Escort Mission = 5,220 kg - Fighter Mission = 4,750 kg
    Maximum loaded weight: 5,220 kg

    Internal fuel capacity: 594 L B4 and 85 L GM-1 in the fuselage, 400 + 115 L B4 and 70 L MW-50 in the wings - Total = 1,109 L B4 + 85 L GM-1 + 70 L MW-50

    Ta 152H-1 Dimensions:

    Wing span: 14.44 m
    Wing area: 23.3 m2
    Lenght: 10.71 m
    Height: 4 m

    Ta 152H-1 Aerodynamics:

    Wing loading: 224 - 203 kg/sq.m
    Span loading: 361 - 328 kg/m
    Wing aspect ratio: 8.94
    Wing profile: Root = NACA FW 23015.3 or xxx20.6 - Tip = NACA FW 23009
    Wing thickness ratio: Root 15.3% - 20.6% - Tip = 9%

    Power loading: 2.54 - 2.31 kg/hp

    Ta 152H-1 Performance:

    Max speeds:

    - 598 km/h at sea level using MW-50
    - 749 km/h at 9,500 m using MW-50
    - 760 km/h at 12,500 m using GM-1 (MAX)

    Note: These speeds were superceded in combat as engine performance apparently was better with the Ta152H's in service compared to the test-bed(s).

    Climb rates and time:

    - 20m/s at Start u. Notlesitung = 1,730 HP @ 3,250 RPM
    - ~26m/s at Sonder Notleistung = 2,050 HP @ 3,250 RPM

    - 10.1 min to climb 10,000 m using MW-50

    Service ceiling: 14,800 - 15,100m

    Jumo 213E performance:

    - 1,580 HP @ 3,000 RPM = Steig u. Kampfleistung
    - 1,730 HP @ 3,250 RPM = Start u. Notleistung
    - 2,050 HP @ 3,250 RPM = Sonder Notleistung


    Ta 152H-1 Armament:

    1x 30mm MK108 cannon and 2x 20mm MG151/20 cannons

    Ta 152H-1 Service record::

    Service entering date: 27th January 1945
    Losses to aerial combat: 0
    Losses to accidents: 3 (two of them occured in combat)
    Confirmed kills in aerial combat: 11


    North American P-51H Mustang
    [​IMG]

    P-51H Statistics:

    Empty weight: 3,193 kg
    Loaded weight: Escort Mission = 5,216 kg - Fighter Mission = 4,310 kg
    Maximum loaded weight: 5,216 kg

    Internal fuel capacity: 965 L of 100/150 grade fuel.

    P-51H Dimension:

    Wing span: 11.27 m
    Wing area: 21.64 m2
    Length: 10.15 m
    Height: 4.16 m

    P-51H Aerodynamics:

    Wing loading: 241 - 199.1 kg/sq.m
    Span loading: 462 - 382.4 kg/m
    Wing aspect ratio: 5.86
    Wing profile: Root = NACA 66-(1.8 )15.5 – Tip = NACA 66-(1.8 )12 “Laminar”
    Wing thickness ratio: Root = 15.5% - Tip = 12%

    Power-loading: 2.35 – 1.94 kg/hp

    P-51H Performance:

    Max speeds:

    - 714 km/h at 1,524 m using (W)WEP
    - 745 km/h at 4,570 m using (W)WEP
    - 783 km/h at 7,620 m using (W)WEP (MAX)

    Climb rates and time:

    - ~24-25 m/s at sea level using (W)WEP

    - 1.5 min to climb 1,524 m using (W)WEP
    - 5 min to climb 4,570 m using (W)WEP

    Service ceiling: 12,679 m

    Packard V-1650-9 performance:

    - 1,380 HP @ 3,000 RPM = Take Off Power
    - 1,720 HP @ 3,000 RPM = War Emergency Power
    - 2,218 HP @ 3,000 RPM = Wet War Emergency Power


    P-51H Armament:

    6x 12.7mm machine-guns.

    P-51H Service record:

    Non WWII aircraft.

    _________________________________________________

    Aerodynamic Facts:

    Airfoil Thickness Ratio - Higher is better.
    Wing Aspect Ratio - Higher is better.
    Span-loading - Lower is better.
    Power-loading - Lower is better.

    Laminar wing info:
    Laminar flow wings lowered the drag, but this came at the cost of lower lift, especially under high G loads. A Laminar flow wing will stall earlier and more violently than a conventional wing.

    Wing aspect ratio info:
    There is a component of the drag of an aircraft called induced drag which depends inversely on the aspect ratio. A higher aspect ratio wing has a lower drag and a higher lift than a lower aspect ratio wing.

    Span loading info:
    The turning drag/lift factor is proportional to the span loading (W/b^2) at a given G loading and indicated airspeed (IAS). It is related to induced drag and is familiar to aerodynamicists. It is the dominant parameter in calculating sustained G. In air-combat turns, the induced drag at a given G level is directly proportional to the span loading.
     
  2. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
    it's all over
     
  3. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well its 5 min to 15,000 ft according to my sources. Have you got any other figures ?
     
  4. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  5. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  6. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, well what I've got is 5 min to 15,000 ft and 6.8 min to 20,000 ft. This might be at combat power however... I'll update the comparison as soon as I get the right figures.
     
  7. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just checked in some charts, and its most likely at "dry" WEP. I'll see if I can get the "Wet" WEP figures.
     
  8. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  9. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Water methanol injection ;)
     
  10. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Platonic Sphere
    ice cube liquid-injection my friend ........a nice 10/15 minute burst of excitement, actually longer in the Ta 152H-1. Heres something to ponder if Monogram ever gets it published ....

    FOCKE-WULF Ta 152
    Monarch-4
    By Thomas H. Hitchcock
    ISBN: 987-0-914144-55-4
    Size: 9 x 12 inch (229 x 305 mm)
    200 printed pages
    Binding: Case bound hardcover
    American retail price: $55.95

    Contents: Introduction, Foreword, Chapters 1 – 5, Epilogue, Appendices: 1) Camouflage, Insignia and Markings; 2) Production and Werknummem; 3) Technical Description, Specifiications, Performance Equipment; 4) Pilot Operating Instructions, Bibliography, Index

    155 Photographs; 31 in full color.
    79 Drawing plates (3-views, sectionals, charts, detail views, general arrangement dwgs, plus maps.)
    26 full color illustrations
     
  11. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If the P-51H ran at (W)WEP for any longer than 5-7 min its engine would be trashed.

    I really hope it gets published Erich, currently I have Dietmar Harmann's book on the Ta 152, a great book.
     
  12. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  13. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What about it ?
     
  14. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  15. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well just so know its only running at WEP, what we need is info on its performance at (W)WEP which was quite abit higher.
     
  16. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  17. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :slicksmile:

    Btw, its 80" and 3,000 RPM.
     
  18. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
  19. Soren

    Soren Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,624
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Typo ;)

    It is 1,940 HP at 75" Hg and 2,218 HP at 80" Hg, and I'll eat my hat if it isn't true :)
     
  20. Sal Monella

    Sal Monella Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Administrative Assistant
    Location:
    Redwood City
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page