Ta152-H1 uber-fighter?

Erich · Apr 12, 2012

I see the myth keeps on reliving itself in post # 237, Ta's protecting LW jets and their A/F's. this thread should be put away in the archiv's.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 12, 2012

Shooter - this is a 7 year old thread!!! Upper Left hand of the thread page will give you a date.

CobberKane · Apr 12, 2012

plan_D said:
I'm wondering too now, it's on my favourites (the site) but I can't find it.

I have a better one with the RR Nene which is probably true -

"Stanley Hooker, who had been in charge of the Rolls-Royce design team that refined the Derwent, visited the US in the spring of 1944, and found that General Electric was developing two turbojet engines with thrust ratings of 17.6 kN (1,800 kg / 4,000 lb) or higher. Hooker, realizing that the British had been thinking small, went back to Britain and initiated a fast track project to build a new, much more powerful centrifugal-flow engine.

The result was the "RB.41 Nene", which was first bench-tested in October 1944 and provided 22.3 kN (2,270 kg / 5,000 lb) thrust. The Nene was the world's most powerful engine at the time, and it was also simple, cheap, and reliable. The Nene was made in large numbers, with versions made in Canada, Australia, France, the US, and the USSR.

The Nene was such a good engine that Rolls-Royce decided to build a scaled-down version, which was designated the "Derwent 5" though it had little direct relationship to earlier Derwent marks. The Derwent 5 was first bench-tested in June 1945, with the test engine providing 11.8 kN (1,200 kg / 2,650 lb) thrust. "

Yep, great engine the Nene - so good that the Brits in their wisdom gave one to the Soviets, who produced it as the Klimov VK-1, wrapped it in the Mig 15 and sent the whole package back to bite everyone on the bum in Korea...

FLYBOYJ · Apr 12, 2012

CobberKane said:
Yep, great engine the Nene - so good that the Brits in their wisdom gave one to the Soviets, who produced it as the Klimov VK-1, wrapped it in the Mig 15 and sent the whole package back to bite everyone on the bum in Korea...

I don't think so. 3 to 1 conservative estimates, 6 to 1 including Chinese and North Koreans. The F-86 was a major distributor of used MiG-15 parts.

Matt308 · Apr 12, 2012

SHOOTER · Apr 13, 2012

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Unfortunately I doubt you will get any responses from them. The posts you are referring to were written more the 7 years ago, and some of these members are no longer active.

Bummer! I like to get in on a good argument! And these sort of things are some of my favorites. Personally, I like the P-38 as top dog over all and the Me-109 if restricted to a single engine. The first because of it's potential and the second because of it's demonstrated effects.

SHOOTER · Apr 13, 2012

I like the rifle in your picture so much that I have two.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Apr 13, 2012

SHOOTER said:
Bummer! I like to get in on a good argument!

As long as you keep it civil...

fastmongrel · Apr 14, 2012

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
As long as you keep it civil...

Which going by Shooter2000s previous history on countless forums will be about a week. The man collects bans like I collect empty beer bottles.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Apr 14, 2012

He is certainly being watched. I will not tolerate it!

GregP · Apr 14, 2012

Shooter,

I fully understand how power loading affects climb rate. How does it affect turn rate?

Wing loading affects turn rate MUCH more than power loading, except at high altitude, where span loading takes over as a maneuverabilty indicator.

GregP · Apr 14, 2012

Erich,

How can you say the Ta-152s being used to protect jet airfelds is a myth? It is the main oeprational duty described in many references, including some authored in Germany.

If it really wan't protecting German airfields (I'd need to be convinced), then its combat record is even worse than it apprears on the surface, because there was surely no shortage of targets in 1945 over Germany.

Erich · Apr 14, 2012

because it is Reschke himself told me that the Ta 152H was used to counter the Mustang threat at altitude not hover over the airfields to protect 262's it has nothing to do with the jets all mention in any book(s) are incorrect as there is NO factual evidence. the record stands straight up in Reschkes book not one instance of this useage only high protection on one op of II./JG 301's Dora 9's. not sure how many times I have had to correct those believing this stuff the last 20 years.by the way the victories of the operations at mid-altitude are not all that much, flugbuchs have been fudged to get credit for several successful pilots of the Stab as example.

Denniss · Apr 15, 2012

Just because something is repeated over and over in books, it must not be true.
Remember the 15mm MG 151 as synchronized guns in the Bf 109 K-4 ?
Or the Bf 109 G-10 were just refurbished older airframes ?

razor1uk · Apr 15, 2012

...and some of the Mustangs were there to attack presenting targets of opportunity, with particular effort towards jet bases jet aviation readying for take off or landing.
Other stangs and allied A/C groups/squadrons/etc woud be supplying top mid cover too.
And higher alt can mean higher dive/closing speeds upon any airborne jets so a counter/decoy for that cover would be more warrented, although getting up there to do just that, in hostile skies above your remianing own territory...

Erich · Apr 15, 2012

it's already a fact that Ta's were not used for protection of jet A/F's in fact JG 301 were never close to any of the JG 7 or other jet fields to do this. are we confusing the Dora 9 in regards to this muddled thought pattern.................I believe this is the case with the Würger staffel and JG 54 Doras. look to see where was III./JG 301 based and it's actions from Janaury 45 onward and then later a trasfer of most of it's Ta's to the Geschwader stab.

GregP · Apr 15, 2012

So you have one guy who never protected jet airfields and you extrapolate that nobody else did either?

I don't follow that reasoning, and neither do most historical aithors, including some German pilots who came to talk at the Planes of Fame when we rolled out our Fw 190F replica and flew it.

I can easily belive that several Ta-152s didn't participate in airfiled protection duty, but to deny that ANY of them did it will take some proof that probably does not exist since there ARE German pilots who corroborate it.

Erich · Apr 15, 2012

the history of JG 301 states what I have been saying, the German pilots you have obviously heard were talking of the Dora 9 only if they said Ta 152H then they are wrong of course they would of mentioned the protection outfit name wouldn't they Greg ? state the German references please and nif you are talking about any osprey title then that can be discounted totally.

Milosh · Apr 15, 2012

I believe this is a airfield protection Dora.

Erich · Apr 15, 2012

yes Milosh the Würger staffel incorrectly called Papegai staffel for AF protection of JV 44 jets. funny several interviews of jet pilots did not even know that they had a protection flight for them as the Doras were parked across the field.

III./JG 54 remnants which protected Kommando Nowotny jets which then became dissolved to form the new JG 7. Interesting that the only protection at all for the jets of JG 7 was ground placed 2cm Flakvierlings which there were hordes of. there were also factory protection units of Dora-9's in fanciful Reich band colors of checks.

Back to the Ta units only Bruno Stolles experimental E-Rechlin testing new arms and engine implant devices flew the Ta though some talk of JG 11 operating just a handful possibly from Bruno's cadre of crates.

Ta152-H1 uber-fighter?

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