FLYBOYJ said:
Come on guys, give him a break. He is the all knowing being remember!
Tactical Strikes of World War II
- Thread starter plan_D
- Start date
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Come on guys, give him a break. He is the all knowing being remember!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I think this all showed that a capable light bomber with a limited bomb load was more than capable of performing precision tactical strikes and the A-20 was probably one og the best of them...
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Nah, the A-20 and tactical strikes by light bombers were useless....
Right syscom???
Right syscom???
syscom3
Pacific Historian
They were a waste of time and effort (light bombers)
Better to have a fighter bomber or a medium bomber.
Better to have a fighter bomber or a medium bomber.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
OMG I can't believe this thread is still going on. 
Joe you building up calluses on your finger tips from providing so much information / proof to syscom???
Syscom don't you ever get tired of beating the same dead horse??? Just drop it already.
God I can't believe syscom that you won't just drop it. Syscom why can't you just say ok PlanD / Joe your are right or at the very least say ok lets agree to disagree. Syscom do you work for a living? How do you spend so much time on this forum arguing about this subject! You have more spare time to spend on this thread than I have to spend doing anything on my computer. You seem to have the life.
Syscom wakes up at 7am signs on to WW2aircraft.net and then spends the next 15 hours typing or thinking what to say on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok now I will say sorry to all for my little rant about this thread and subject. I'm going to shove a pen in my eye now so I stop thinking about this thread. At this rate I am going to be totally bald from pulling my hair b/c of reading syscom's posts!!!!
No offense meant syscom, but my wife is asking you to stop posting on this thread b/c she likes and wants me to keep my hair. Stop already.
Joe you building up calluses on your finger tips from providing so much information / proof to syscom???
Syscom don't you ever get tired of beating the same dead horse??? Just drop it already.
God I can't believe syscom that you won't just drop it. Syscom why can't you just say ok PlanD / Joe your are right or at the very least say ok lets agree to disagree. Syscom do you work for a living? How do you spend so much time on this forum arguing about this subject! You have more spare time to spend on this thread than I have to spend doing anything on my computer. You seem to have the life.
Syscom wakes up at 7am signs on to WW2aircraft.net and then spends the next 15 hours typing or thinking what to say on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok now I will say sorry to all for my little rant about this thread and subject. I'm going to shove a pen in my eye now so I stop thinking about this thread. At this rate I am going to be totally bald from pulling my hair b/c of reading syscom's posts!!!!
No offense meant syscom, but my wife is asking you to stop posting on this thread b/c she likes and wants me to keep my hair. Stop already.
FLYBOYJ said:
Yeap and everyone who knows anything and has done some research and reading about WW2 tactical operations knows that.
Thanks anyhow for all the info that you put.
For me this case is closed, syscom can keep dwelling in his little world of dillusion.
Hunter please make your siggy smaller. That is way too big.
Thankyou
- Thread starter
- #253
Now, it's plain for all to see that syscom is wrong on his assumption that light bombers are "useless".
I have recently received the only full history of the US Ninth Air Force in World War II. The 9th Air Force in World War II by Kenn C. Rust (1967 - Aero Publishers Inc.) I've only read up to the the Ninth operations in the North African desert in support of the British 8th Army.
The story of the U.S Ninth began when twenty-three B-24D Liberators landed in the Middle-East. These planes belonged to Halverson Detachment (CO Col. Harry A. Halverson) which was on it's way to China with the plan to attack Japan from airfields there.
The planes were held-up in the Middle-East by an order to attack the Ploesti oil refineries in Romania, the largest supplier of oil to the Axis war machine. On 11 June thirteen Liberators took off from Fayid, Egypt arriving individually over target at dawn on the 12th. Ten bombers the Astra Romana Refinery at Ploesti, one attacked the port at Constanta and two dropped bombs on other unidentified targets. This was the first mission of planes that would become part of the US Ninth Air Force later in the year.
HALPRO (Codename for Halverson Detachment) was then ordered to stay in the Middle-East as the only force capable of striking the Afrika Korps supply line at it's head. They attacked the supply ships in open sea, and in the ports of Tobruk and Benghazi throughout June.
On 28 June, they attacked motor transport and tanks on the Sollum-Matrah Road. The emergency of the situation was so great, these heavy bombers were at times thrown into the tactical role. On the same day seven B-17E bombers arrived at Fayid, these were from the 9th Bomb Squadron, 7th Bomb Group. The squadron had arrived from the India where it had been fighting the Japanese. The commanding officer, Major-General Lewis H. Brereton, was placed in command of the United States Army Middle-East Air Force (USAMEAF).
Both the B-17s and B-24s joined up starting in July to continue their attacks on the Axis shipping. On the 5th, five more B-17Es arrived from 9th Bomb Squadron and 436th Bomb Squadron. On 20 July, 1942, the heavy bomber forces in the Middle-East were formed into the First Provisional Group based at Lydda, Palestine. This consisted of the Halverson (B-24Ds) and Brereton (B-17Es) squadrons. This group and RAF 160 Squadron (with Liberators) were the only heavy bombers in the theatre.
During July three new groups began moving toward the Middle-East, these were 98th Bomb Group (Heavy), 57th Fighter Group and 12th Bomb Group (Medium) equipped with B-24D, P-40F and B-25C respectively. The first mission by any of these groups was on 1 August, 1942 when seven B-24s from 344th Bomb Squadron (98th BG) attacked Mersa Matruh.
The 98th BG had fully deployed by 20 August, and had brought 34 B-24s to the theatre (35 were sent, but one was lost on route with it's crew).
57th FG arrived in full on 17 August, but had started operations before then. It had brought 72 P-40F Warhawks to the Mid-East, which were mostly brought across aboard USS Ranger.
The 12th BG arrived last, fully forming on 18 August but flew it's first mission on the 16th. This group brought 57 B-25C Mitchells to the Mid-East.
This expansion was just the start of the Ninth Air Force, which was officially named on 12 November, 1942. I will continue the history tomorrow or later, as I have to go. Next - how the RAF taught the AAF in the desert...
I have recently received the only full history of the US Ninth Air Force in World War II. The 9th Air Force in World War II by Kenn C. Rust (1967 - Aero Publishers Inc.) I've only read up to the the Ninth operations in the North African desert in support of the British 8th Army.
The story of the U.S Ninth began when twenty-three B-24D Liberators landed in the Middle-East. These planes belonged to Halverson Detachment (CO Col. Harry A. Halverson) which was on it's way to China with the plan to attack Japan from airfields there.
The planes were held-up in the Middle-East by an order to attack the Ploesti oil refineries in Romania, the largest supplier of oil to the Axis war machine. On 11 June thirteen Liberators took off from Fayid, Egypt arriving individually over target at dawn on the 12th. Ten bombers the Astra Romana Refinery at Ploesti, one attacked the port at Constanta and two dropped bombs on other unidentified targets. This was the first mission of planes that would become part of the US Ninth Air Force later in the year.
HALPRO (Codename for Halverson Detachment) was then ordered to stay in the Middle-East as the only force capable of striking the Afrika Korps supply line at it's head. They attacked the supply ships in open sea, and in the ports of Tobruk and Benghazi throughout June.
On 28 June, they attacked motor transport and tanks on the Sollum-Matrah Road. The emergency of the situation was so great, these heavy bombers were at times thrown into the tactical role. On the same day seven B-17E bombers arrived at Fayid, these were from the 9th Bomb Squadron, 7th Bomb Group. The squadron had arrived from the India where it had been fighting the Japanese. The commanding officer, Major-General Lewis H. Brereton, was placed in command of the United States Army Middle-East Air Force (USAMEAF).
Both the B-17s and B-24s joined up starting in July to continue their attacks on the Axis shipping. On the 5th, five more B-17Es arrived from 9th Bomb Squadron and 436th Bomb Squadron. On 20 July, 1942, the heavy bomber forces in the Middle-East were formed into the First Provisional Group based at Lydda, Palestine. This consisted of the Halverson (B-24Ds) and Brereton (B-17Es) squadrons. This group and RAF 160 Squadron (with Liberators) were the only heavy bombers in the theatre.
During July three new groups began moving toward the Middle-East, these were 98th Bomb Group (Heavy), 57th Fighter Group and 12th Bomb Group (Medium) equipped with B-24D, P-40F and B-25C respectively. The first mission by any of these groups was on 1 August, 1942 when seven B-24s from 344th Bomb Squadron (98th BG) attacked Mersa Matruh.
The 98th BG had fully deployed by 20 August, and had brought 34 B-24s to the theatre (35 were sent, but one was lost on route with it's crew).
57th FG arrived in full on 17 August, but had started operations before then. It had brought 72 P-40F Warhawks to the Mid-East, which were mostly brought across aboard USS Ranger.
The 12th BG arrived last, fully forming on 18 August but flew it's first mission on the 16th. This group brought 57 B-25C Mitchells to the Mid-East.
This expansion was just the start of the Ninth Air Force, which was officially named on 12 November, 1942. I will continue the history tomorrow or later, as I have to go. Next - how the RAF taught the AAF in the desert...
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
BTW, k9Kiwi,
THAT was some funny sh*t man....
THAT was some funny sh*t man....
Wildcat
Major
Great info D.
Good stuff D!
Yeap good stuff D.
- Thread starter
- #258
I've finally finished reading the U.S Ninth Air Force by Kenn C. Rust, and am dedicating extensive time to reading the history of 2 Group '36 - '45 by Micheal Bowyer...
I thought I would revive this thread, but not just for tactical strikes, but the tactical operations of all the air forces...
In case no one is aware, 2 Group was the tactical arm of the RAF ... it was the core of 2nd TAF, but was in combat from day one, penertrating German airspace on 3rd Sept. and making the first RAF bombing raid against Admiral Scheer on 4th Sept. 1939. I've just finished reading the 2 Group operations in support of the B.E.F and French forces from 10th May - 17th June, 1940... very interesting.
I thought I would revive this thread, but not just for tactical strikes, but the tactical operations of all the air forces...
In case no one is aware, 2 Group was the tactical arm of the RAF ... it was the core of 2nd TAF, but was in combat from day one, penertrating German airspace on 3rd Sept. and making the first RAF bombing raid against Admiral Scheer on 4th Sept. 1939. I've just finished reading the 2 Group operations in support of the B.E.F and French forces from 10th May - 17th June, 1940... very interesting.
- Thread starter
- #259
We always hear about what the Luftwaffe was doing with her tactical bombers, but what about Bomber Command...? Before the Battle of France 2 Group was out mostly doing recon over Germany or attacking German warships in Wilhelmshaven or Brunsbuttel... with the odd attack on Danish airfields. They'd fly out with their Blenheim IVs (mix thoughts on these from the pilots) from East Anglia on long flights up to 4 hours ...where cold was the worst enemy, and the Luftwaffe made a few shows.
When Germany invaded France the stakes were high and 2 Group suffered. The first sorties of 10th May were from two Blenheims of 40 Sqdn. flown by Sqn. Ldr. Paddon and Flg. Off. Burns. They took off from RAF Wyton at 09.05 hours for a reconnaissance of the Hague area... they found much of the Luftwaffe and drove off a Ju 88. Burns failed to return and as Paddon touched down his Blenheims' damaged engine burst into flames.
The second mission of the day took off at 14.15 hours, it was XV Sqn. from RAF Wyton dispatching nine Blenheims to bomb Waalhaven, a Dutch airfield held by Fallschirmjager. Starting from 3000 feet the Blenheims began a shallow diving attack, they claimed hits on a dozen aircraft. Hangars were bombed and seven Ju 52s left ablaze. They also bombed a line of German AA already in action! All returned, but with damage.
Sqn. Ldr. then led 12 Blenheims from 40 Sqn. against Ypenburg airfield, craters were all over the airfield and a hangar left ablaze. Two crews failed to return.
110 Sqn. dispatched 12 Blenheim IVs from RAF Wattisham led by Sqn. Ldr. Sabine to destroy Ju 52s on a beach north of The Hague. The flight was escorted by six Blenheim IF fighters of 600 Sqn. They attacked the beach as planned and one Ju 52 was lifted off the beach from the explosions!
Finally an evening recon by two aircraft of 21 Sqn. over the Nijmegen-Rhein-Munster-Verhlk area showed the German advance to be fluid and fast.
11 May - the BEF have made line on the River Dyle and are digging in.
11 Blenheims are dispatched by 21 Sqn. at 15.10 to halt German movement toward Maastricht. They'd been at readiness since 04.30 hours but intelligence was poor as the German advance was so fast. They attacked the main bridge but only damaged it.
"...led by Scottie Pryde who chose to circle a before leading us in, with the result that when we did start running in we were in the middle of the biggest barrage I could possibly imagine. I do not know to this day how some of us ever got through it for there didn't seem an inch of sky that was not cover with flak." - Peter Sarll.
Only one Blenheim returned unscathed, one went down burning and another fell into German hands - with two of its crew becoming POWs and the third dying.
110 Sqn. also operated 11 Blenheims that day, led by Flt. Lt. Gratton who was shot down over Maastricht along with another Blenheim piloted by Sgt. Bennett. Three Blenheims returned unharmed.
When Germany invaded France the stakes were high and 2 Group suffered. The first sorties of 10th May were from two Blenheims of 40 Sqdn. flown by Sqn. Ldr. Paddon and Flg. Off. Burns. They took off from RAF Wyton at 09.05 hours for a reconnaissance of the Hague area... they found much of the Luftwaffe and drove off a Ju 88. Burns failed to return and as Paddon touched down his Blenheims' damaged engine burst into flames.
The second mission of the day took off at 14.15 hours, it was XV Sqn. from RAF Wyton dispatching nine Blenheims to bomb Waalhaven, a Dutch airfield held by Fallschirmjager. Starting from 3000 feet the Blenheims began a shallow diving attack, they claimed hits on a dozen aircraft. Hangars were bombed and seven Ju 52s left ablaze. They also bombed a line of German AA already in action! All returned, but with damage.
Sqn. Ldr. then led 12 Blenheims from 40 Sqn. against Ypenburg airfield, craters were all over the airfield and a hangar left ablaze. Two crews failed to return.
110 Sqn. dispatched 12 Blenheim IVs from RAF Wattisham led by Sqn. Ldr. Sabine to destroy Ju 52s on a beach north of The Hague. The flight was escorted by six Blenheim IF fighters of 600 Sqn. They attacked the beach as planned and one Ju 52 was lifted off the beach from the explosions!
Finally an evening recon by two aircraft of 21 Sqn. over the Nijmegen-Rhein-Munster-Verhlk area showed the German advance to be fluid and fast.
11 May - the BEF have made line on the River Dyle and are digging in.
11 Blenheims are dispatched by 21 Sqn. at 15.10 to halt German movement toward Maastricht. They'd been at readiness since 04.30 hours but intelligence was poor as the German advance was so fast. They attacked the main bridge but only damaged it.
"...led by Scottie Pryde who chose to circle a before leading us in, with the result that when we did start running in we were in the middle of the biggest barrage I could possibly imagine. I do not know to this day how some of us ever got through it for there didn't seem an inch of sky that was not cover with flak." - Peter Sarll.
Only one Blenheim returned unscathed, one went down burning and another fell into German hands - with two of its crew becoming POWs and the third dying.
110 Sqn. also operated 11 Blenheims that day, led by Flt. Lt. Gratton who was shot down over Maastricht along with another Blenheim piloted by Sgt. Bennett. Three Blenheims returned unharmed.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Sorry for interrupting gentlemen. Still learning and all that. BUT, would they sometime use tactical bombraids to take out several airfields, to keep field and aircrews with their aircratfs grounded and busy with repairs? All this before the strategic bombers passed over somewhat safer?
As I said still learning after a few years absence....
So I guess that the bombings of those Gestapo HQ's in Norway, Denmark and was it Holland, the Phillps factory and the Amiens prisons all classifies as tactical then?
As I said still learning after a few years absence....
So I guess that the bombings of those Gestapo HQ's in Norway, Denmark and was it Holland, the Phillps factory and the Amiens prisons all classifies as tactical then?
