pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Another fact to consider is that Germany was not a large producer of trucks even us northern folks outproduced Germany , Japan and Italy combined by a huge number
The best truck of WWII?
- Thread starter Lucky13
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The official numbers for the RSO are:
Weight with fuel and equipment: 3,500 kg to 3,700 kg
Maximum loaded weight: 5,200 / 5,500 kg
Engine: 85 hp Gasoline / 66 hp Diesel
Tope speed: 30 km/h / 17.5 km/h
Towing load: 3+ tons
Carrying load: 1.5 tons
Source: Frank Reinhard
The thing that was great about the RSO was not only its excellent towing capability, but also its carrying capability and space.
For towing loads heavier than 3 tons the Germans had a vast variety of other tactors, like for example the 90 hp Landsverk 132 which towed 5.5 ton loads in general.
Weight with fuel and equipment: 3,500 kg to 3,700 kg
Maximum loaded weight: 5,200 / 5,500 kg
Engine: 85 hp Gasoline / 66 hp Diesel
Tope speed: 30 km/h / 17.5 km/h
Towing load: 3+ tons
Carrying load: 1.5 tons
Source: Frank Reinhard
The thing that was great about the RSO was not only its excellent towing capability, but also its carrying capability and space.
For towing loads heavier than 3 tons the Germans had a vast variety of other tactors, like for example the 90 hp Landsverk 132 which towed 5.5 ton loads in general.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
On the subject of driving in icy conditions, I have an Infiniti FX45 which has a four wheel drive system that is automatic. Many Nissan vehicles have the same system. The way it works is that starting from a dead stop(regardless of traction conditions) the vehicle is in all wheel drive. As soon as the vehicle is rolling, if no slippage is detected, it goes into rear wheel drive and stays in that mode until(or if) any slippage is sensed. If slippage is detected it goes into all wheel with the amount of traction allocated to front or rear monitered and all of this in conjunction with the anti skid brakes and the electronic stability program. There are similar systems on other manufacturer's models. The issue that occurs to me is if four wheel drive because of steering is deficient in icy conditions, why would Mfgrs. use these systems? Sounds like it could be fertile ground for a law suit.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
The only thing that bugs me is the microsecond the wheel takes to go from a drive position to free wheeling is enough to make your day very interesting, as for the lawsuits what does the manual say. If one drives where there is icing conditions pay attention to which vehicles are in the ditch the proportion of people using 4wd seems higher. I live in Niagara falls and in winter depending on the wind the mist from the falls can drift for several km and freezes on the roads quickly they do a great job with the salt but they can't be perfect
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
There is a snow mode switch which can be used in very slick conditions which "softens" the shifts of the trnsmission(5 speeds) I got into a situation about 1.5 years ago which was comical re the snow mode. In February was driving from Gunnison to Montrose which is about 65 miles over two small passes and it was snowing lightly after a fresh snow of about 8-12 inches but it was an absolute white out. The road had been plowed but there was about 2-3 inches on the pavement. The altitude here varies from about 7700 to 5700 feet with the passes about 8500. The game were all along the road as that region had gotten about 250 inches that year. The visibility was about 50 t0 75 feet and I was trying to stay in some faint tracks of a car in front because the boundaries of the road were hard to see. My car had M&S tires and I got into this mess suddenly, had never used the snow mode and did not know how it reacted and was afraid to look down to where the switch was. I kept chugging along at around 25 to 30 mph, straining to see the tracks, with elk and deer periodically looming out of the white along the road shoulders. Anyway finally got home to Montrose where there was 4-5 inches of fresh snow where the roads were not plowed, turned on my snow mode and went around the neighborhood trying it out. Worked fine. The Audi Quattro system is all wheel drive all the time with varying amonts of power shifted front and back and I have a Honda Ridgeline which is also all wheel drive full time. Earlier remarks about legal liability would apply to Audi and Honda also if steering in four wheel drive is deficient on ice, not to mention Subaru!
Living in the central and northern Rockies for half of my life I can speak first hand about the difference between 2 wheel drive and four wheel drive. If you have a rear wheel two wheel drive in the snow and ice you are eventually going to lose control alot easier then with a front wheel or a four wheel drive. I commuted sometimes daily between Kalispell and Missoula when I lived in Montana and truly believe that I would have been in big trouble without 4x4 High. My buddy was miserable with his two wheel drive pick-up ( he let his wife use his new 4x4 in the winter), always chaining up or getting stuck. The stutter when switching into 4x4 can cause you to lose control on some trucks so even though I could switch to 4x4 High going 60 mph I wouldn't do it if I was on snow pack without slowing down.
On a different note when hauling logs out of the Rockies on those infamous Montana log roads, which are 8ft. wide and full of switchbacks and kelly humps thank goodness, I was in a Kw hauling 80,000 to 100,000 lbs no problem due to the weight of the truck and logs. It even got to a point where you would not have to chain up your tandems and steering because the sheer weight will help you stick to the ground, as long as you never, ever, ever touched the brakes. Jake brake only please.
On a different note when hauling logs out of the Rockies on those infamous Montana log roads, which are 8ft. wide and full of switchbacks and kelly humps thank goodness, I was in a Kw hauling 80,000 to 100,000 lbs no problem due to the weight of the truck and logs. It even got to a point where you would not have to chain up your tandems and steering because the sheer weight will help you stick to the ground, as long as you never, ever, ever touched the brakes. Jake brake only please.
In the end it does not matter if you have 4 wheel drive. Ice can make a very bad day for any vehicle. I drive a Jeep and I hit black ice about 2 months ago in an S Turn coming down a hill. I lost total control of my Jeep. Fortunately nothing was hit before I was able to regain control.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
There has been an article published the last few years in one of the car magazines comparing two sedans driving on ice and their performance. One is the Subaru WRX? and the other is a Mitsubishi Raillart? I think. Both are 4 wheel drive hot rods but I have not paid too much attention to the write ups. I agree with Chris that driving on ice is bad luck. The best tactic I know is to keep all four wheels rolling. Once a wheel or wheels starts skidding there is little control. Came over a hill once on ice at about 50 mph in an Audi Quattro with Blizzaks to see a long line of cars stopped. When I tried to steer into the open lane even that car began to slide but straightened itself out as I lost speed. Whew!
parsifal
Colonel
Have not read the full extent of this thread, but the bits I have are interesting. In my opinion when looking for the best, one has to equate best, with most cost effective. The ability of trucks to do their job was all about numbers. If you have trucks that are qualitatively the best, but cost three times as much as they should, you have a failure on your hands. Conversely, if you build a cheapie, which is going to fall apart three times more quickly than its competitiors, or not do the job that you need to get done (in terms of cross country capability), you also have a failure on your hands.
Its hard to know if the Germans produced the right types of vehicles for their situation. The Opels were cheap enough but were lightly built, which led to a lot of attrition on the east front. In the mud they had great difficulties, but then so too did the US trucks that equipped the Russian army. Four and six wheel drive vehicles would have improved mobility, but were costly to build (relatively) and therefore availability would haver dropped if that policy had been adopted. Even halftracks proved incapable of satisfactorily coping with the East Front conditions (a big reason why half tracks quickly fell out of favour after the war, as expensive as a proper fully tracked APC, they were only a fraction as good in terms of mobility) e
I am inclined to think that the germans settled on the best solution that they could, given their very limited vehicle production capabilities. My only real criticism is the multiplicity of types that they used. Pre-war they had recognized the need for standardization, and had partially implemented a rationalization plan that reduced to the number different types in the fleet by about 50%, but this was not a complete solution. And because of the vehicle shortages in the German motor vehicle industry, the Germans were forced to use infereior civilain vehicles, particulalry from France, which almost completely ruined their logistic support network on the east front, since these types were very fragile, and very lacking in off road capability
Its hard to know if the Germans produced the right types of vehicles for their situation. The Opels were cheap enough but were lightly built, which led to a lot of attrition on the east front. In the mud they had great difficulties, but then so too did the US trucks that equipped the Russian army. Four and six wheel drive vehicles would have improved mobility, but were costly to build (relatively) and therefore availability would haver dropped if that policy had been adopted. Even halftracks proved incapable of satisfactorily coping with the East Front conditions (a big reason why half tracks quickly fell out of favour after the war, as expensive as a proper fully tracked APC, they were only a fraction as good in terms of mobility) e
I am inclined to think that the germans settled on the best solution that they could, given their very limited vehicle production capabilities. My only real criticism is the multiplicity of types that they used. Pre-war they had recognized the need for standardization, and had partially implemented a rationalization plan that reduced to the number different types in the fleet by about 50%, but this was not a complete solution. And because of the vehicle shortages in the German motor vehicle industry, the Germans were forced to use infereior civilain vehicles, particulalry from France, which almost completely ruined their logistic support network on the east front, since these types were very fragile, and very lacking in off road capability
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Still waiting Soren
Sources for what viking ?
If you wanna know why the Germans didn't care about manufacturing 6x6's because it was useless, then read Frank Reinhard's series of books. That is my source.
Now what is your sources ? And yes I'd certainly like some from you, cause so far you have presented ZERO, safe ocfourse from a description from a modelling website, which btw doesn't in any way contradict what I said.
So bring your sources which you claim contradict mine or shut up.
If you wanna know why the Germans didn't care about manufacturing 6x6's because it was useless, then read Frank Reinhard's series of books. That is my source.
Now what is your sources ? And yes I'd certainly like some from you, cause so far you have presented ZERO, safe ocfourse from a description from a modelling website, which btw doesn't in any way contradict what I said.
So bring your sources which you claim contradict mine or shut up.
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Absolutely correct. I actually had to go through the German driving school to get my license when I younger. We had to do winter driving courses. Key is to not panic and apply the break.
toadrobot
Recruit
I'm now where my parents stay in Sweden, called Östersund, which is higher on this pea that we call earth than Anchorage in Alaska. When I still lived here, I was used to work outside in way below -30C and our construction workers are still working at -20C and only stop working when it falls below -25C...
Not far from where I stay it every so often falls below -40C and -50C....
Now that I've rubbed shoulders with everybody about where it's cold and snowy etc....
I think that everybody here's correct about the GMC and Opel. First with the US, its mountain states and having close to Canada with the cold and snow, I'm sure that it could handle that just as well as the Opel. Then you have the interests that US had in Asia, must have been a few GMC there too, just as well as Opel, with the Dutch East Indies, thinking that Holland must have bought a few Opels from Germany before the war. I mean, didn't Germany export WAY more than they imported in the 30's and isn't trucks usually a big part of a countrys export, must have been a few Opels in there, right?
Another thing, with all the cold in Russia, there's one thing missing that you saw in Norway and Austria-Italy.....high mountains! Did the Allied ever cross over the border between Italy and Austria to try their GMC's etc. on harsh slippery winter mountain roads?
Btw, how many tracked trucks, Maultiers, did the Wermacht have compared to the Allied? Must have been a few half track Opel, Steyr, Mercedes and Ford...
Wow, I sure wish we shut er down here in the oilpatch in western Canada at minus 25! Ive worked as cold as - 44 and regularly in the minus 30s, and we work with cold (!) steel.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
The Canadian Military Pattern trucks built by Ford and Chevrolet. Approximately half a million CMP trucks and over 800,000 trucks overall were built in Canada during the war. A massive effort, more trucks than were built for the German armed forces in the same period a real war winning effort by Canada
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