The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????

[Erich]

ok Jackson I have been in contact with NASM and of course friend Jerry Crandall who helped get this hot rod cleaned up and find the original base layer camo underneath the US "fake" one.

so what I hear you saying is that the JG 301 veterans including my cousin are idiots then.............if I hear you correctly you are going to get your butt kicked right off this site. Nasm for your own information does not have the low down on the TA 152H altogether let alone all the info on JG 301 except the veterans that flew the bird. By the way it is NOT restored in full flying condition ........and Grüne 4 did not fly high altitude missions but medium to low. by the way did you see when the article you posted was written-------- ? 6 years ago man, much has been found about this a/c since then.

have you ever read anything on JG 301 and it's operations ? Do you know any of the vets, and I do not mean the US guys trying to re-fabricate an a/c some 60 plus years old

 

[seesul]

am going to ask Will what happened to his DK in gold - pretty well beat up

Hi Erich,

W.R. told me that he had to hide all these decorations at his backyard all the time till 1989 as he lived in East Germany... So maybe weather conditions caused this damage... But anyway, I´ll ask him yet.

Roman

 

[seesul]

am going to ask Will what happened to his DK in gold - pretty well beat up

Erich,

I got it. I just phoned to W.R. and was told that when he got this DK im Gold (April '45) they had no new one for him. So his Geschwaderkomodor got an older DK from somewhere and gave it to W.R....

Roman

 

[Jackson]

Axis History Forum :: Ta - 152

Erich are you the same guy on this thread?

If so, back in 2003 why didn't you dispute the same points.. which were subsequently raised here on this forum by others.


I am trying to remember where I first heard this, maybe in Rudy Opitzes book, back in 1965, from the RAF Lakenheath or Ramstien library. (Jagd something? Pilot= "Fighter Pilot") or maybe the squadron library of the 55th tfs. Or maybe Hess's son, a '104 jock. Could have been from my grandfather the Spitfire pilot, a Vickers and later Skunkworks engineer. Opitz's book was out of print in the 50' s I believe.


My point... even "newbie" here can have 40+ years with this stuff, or have a great grand father named John Dunne, the inventor of swept wings..

almost 100 years family aviation history - that's years older than this site, we all got family

But heck, I know more about this stuff than my dad, F100-F4-F111, then NASA Houston or my sister @ Boeing.


I could be wrong.. and so could the Smithsonian about this wooden crate.
So.. I disagree.. and even first hand accounts of the same events differ/ often.

 

[Erich]

Roman thanks for the update on Willi's DK that makes sense............. thumbs up

Jackson in reality and research proves it, 1 Geshwader Stab pilot did make a Mustang kill confirmed. And yes I am the same Erich. I was moderator on that forum and I fell out of disfavour with many posters as mr. E. was disproving myths even by some of the other mods. the forum went down hill and I relinquished my mod responsibilties. Personally the Luftwaffe and A/C sections on that forum are a joke.

I go by my stand on the TA 152H via questions to Willi Reschke through my friend Roman who has seen the answers by the former pilot and who is the representative for all of JG 301

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

considering alll the 152 H's were grounded for poor design and manufacturing problems

the scenery would have been brown dirt, grass and the bottom side of P47 Jabo's zooming overhead

Thats funny. Several people here are in contact (I am still waiting for a response from him) with Willi Reschke and several other people who flew the Ta 152 right up until the end of the war.

I will believe Reschke and the other pilots who actually flew it before I believe you or the NASM anyday.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will accept the word of someone who actually OWNS one...as being knowledgable as to the aircrafts history.

So basically what you are saying is this:

The men who actually flew the aircraft are worthless for information.

That is what you are saying?

 

[Lucky13]

I can't believe that Kurt Tank would do something of poor design.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He didn't.

They were hastily built though and in that process may have had some manufacturing faults because of the lack of materials and so forth near the end of the war but Tank was not an idiot as some people wish for you to believe. He was one of the best designers of aircraft during the war and contributed much to post war.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

or have a great grand father named John Dunne, the inventor of swept wings..

That is funny where do you come up with that?

The idea of swept wings was developed in Germany in the 1930s. The first person to even bring the idea up was Dr. Adolf Busemann at the Volta Conferrence in 1935. Albert Betz also worked on the idea.

There were several German Jet aircraft that were swept wing designs during WW2 including the Messerschmitt P.1101 which was sent to the US in 1948 to the Bell Aircraft Works. Unfortunatly the aircraft was damaged beyond repair when it fell off of a train. Bell however took the design and components and built the the Bell X-5 out of it.

In case you dont know anything about Busemann he was working on developing swept wing designs for the Germans in the 1930s and 1940s and after the war worked in the US with NACAs Langley Research Center and in the 1960s was a Professor at the U. of Colorado where he came up with the idea for the tiles on the Space Shuttle.

 

[Lucky13]

Just sounded far fetched you know Adler. Just been looking at some of the aircraft that he designed for Argentina and India, nice machines. I'd say he's just as profilic (right word?) as Heinemann, the father of the SBD, Skyraider and the Skyhawk....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Oh and just wanted to add something here. This goes for all posters in this thread.

We the moderators are getting tired of people becoming insulting to one another in these threads. A good debate is fun but when it gets out of hand with insults it has gone to far.

As stated by another moderator in the Most Overated.... thread this is the only warning.

Instulting posts will warrant infractions. I dont care who starts it it goes for everyone.

Eneogh is eneogh...

 

[Lucky13]

I don't if I have been insulting to anyone or not...but anyhoo just to make sure, let me be the first to apologize if that would be the case. Sorry.

 

[Jackson]

anyway, history and personal recolections are funny

and yeas, the shortage of materials and time compression could affect fielding a suitable aircraft..

Does the fact that my sister is a Boeing engineer involed in the ISS and previously the Shuttle give me the right to dismiss out of hand anyones opinions?

no


Or because of my grandfathers in involement in the development of the Spitfire make anything I say more correct than anyone else

no


John Dunne the inventor of swept back wings..

The Historical Burgess-Dunne

HistoryLink Essay: Boeing B-47 Stratojet Bomber -- A Snapshot History

Your German was 30 years late....



doubt it? Mebbe I will PM you my a listing for John Dunn(e) not that far from Palmdale and you can ask my granny, she is 90 +

lol

Despite poor health, however, John Dunne resumed his aeronautical investigations, and by 1904 was ready to progress from the model phase to experiments with gliders and later, powered aircraft. Dunne sought an experienced engineer to assist him in the difficult job of putting theory into practice. His problem was solved when he was assigned in 1905 to the Army Balloon Factory at South Farnborough, England, then under the able leadership of Colonel John Capper. With Capper's guidance and support, Dunne began the design and construction of the the first British military airplane.

Months of tests with model gliders were followed in the spring of 1907 by the first passenger-carrying glider. It was the first of many craft with the distinctive V-shaped wing designed by Dunne, frequently described as an arrowhead minus a shaft.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

anyway, history and personal recolections are funny

and yeas, the shortage of materials and time compression could affect fielding a suitable aircraft..

Does the fact that my sister is a Boeing engineer involed in the ISS and previously the Shuttle give me the right to dismiss out of hand anyones opinions?

no


Or because of my grandfathers in involement in the development of the Spitfire make anything I say more correct than anyone else

no

Nope but I will stake first hand accounts over what a museum currator or restorer who did not fly the aircraft in 1945 has to say.

John Dunne the inventor of swept back wings..

The Historical Burgess-Dunne

HistoryLink Essay: Boeing B-47 Stratojet Bomber -- A Snapshot History

Your German was 30 years late....



doubt it? Mebbe I will PM you my a listing for John Dunn(e) not that far from Palmdale and you can ask my granny, she is 90 +

lol

Despite poor health, however, John Dunne resumed his aeronautical investigations, and by 1904 was ready to progress from the model phase to experiments with gliders and later, powered aircraft. Dunne sought an experienced engineer to assist him in the difficult job of putting theory into practice. His problem was solved when he was assigned in 1905 to the Army Balloon Factory at South Farnborough, England, then under the able leadership of Colonel John Capper. With Capper's guidance and support, Dunne began the design and construction of the the first British military airplane.

Months of tests with model gliders were followed in the spring of 1907 by the first passenger-carrying glider. It was the first of many craft with the distinctive V-shaped wing designed by Dunne, frequently described as an arrowhead minus a shaft.

Funny every book you read says the first real use and idea came from someone else.

Oh and the German is not mine, so dont make smart ass comments about "Your German"....

You are on very thin ice Jackson.

 

[Jackson]

and BTW I am a big fan of all the WWI WWIIgreat planes designers

Including Kelly Johnson, Messerschmitt, Tank etc..

My grandfather and my great grand father

 

[Jackson]

Early Flying Wings

check the photos..

 

[Jackson]

my grand father on the other side was Northup Boeing, dad was Rockwell Link (after retiring from the Pentagon)

Grandpa also worked in that big building near Rossmore, between Los Alamitos Seal Beach Ca

 

[Soren]

Jackson, Dunne understanded squat of what advantages the swepped wing possessed over a straight one, he was just experimenting with different shapes just as all other engineers at the time were doing. The first swepped back wing was designed by Da Vinci, but somehow I don't think he really understood the difference of this over a straight wing

The Germans were the first to widely use and fully understand the advantages of the swepped wing design.

 

[Jackson]

Great Grandad -he sold many aircraft to the US British military...That is a little beyond experimenting.


Sweptback wings date to the first decade of the powered airplane. Britain's John Dunne flew a sweptback wing biplane with inherent stability (the reason he used swept wings) in 1910. The U.S. Army and Navy evaluated his later swept wing designs, as armed warplanes in 1914-1915; the first military services to do so. Interestingly, their 32° wing sweep was nearly the same as the B-47. In the late 1930s, U.S. light planes with 25° sweptback wings were in production.



Like my grandfather, and the wings on the Spit U2

Oh Please..