U-617 12/Sept/1943 Albrecht Brandi Karl Dönitz Doenitz U617

Discussion in 'Old Threads' started by Jan7, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    U-617 12/Sept/1943 Albrecht Brandi Karl Dönitz Doenitz U617



    Dear mates and friends from the Forum:

    I am Juan Jaramillo y Blasco. I’m a participating among other friends from the U-Historia Forum on a Historical Investigation that Emilio Umbría is carrying out on the U-617.



    The historical investigation about the incident that took place in the mouth of the River Kert, near Melilla in September 1943, after that the German submarine under commanded by the Kapitänleutnant Albrecht Brandi stranded, is near to its end after 9 years of working.



    It has been years of material compilation of diverse kind, such as Secret and confidential documentation declassified specifically at request to be incorporated, coming from many varied National Governmental Archives, Formal Requests at the German Embassy in Madrid, Collaboration, Compilation and Interchange with different people and Organizations in our own country, but also abroad.

    We will present, with the inestimable help, presence and collaboration as much of friends as of people that, with the performance of their duties, have assisted us, this new investigational work to the audience that hopefully will show again the linking between the History of Spain in the historical context of the World War Two.



    I will present to you the Team:

    Emilio Umbría – Director of Investigation

    Luis Montero –Logan-

    Luis Borrás –Spoon-

    Juan Jaramillo –Jan7-



    Brief historical synthesis of the Investigation:

    According to the analysis of the documentation we have in power, the following facts are emphasized: The submarine was attacked by the British air force and navy, and even when it ran into a ditch inside the Spanish territorial waters, the whole crew was therefore safe in the coast, being afterwards land rescued by the Spanish army and confinement to barracks of the Legion in Tahuima in Nador (Spanish protectorade in Morocco) in two expeditions. Only two crew members of the submarine stayed in Melilla, the Lieutenant Ferdinand von Arco as a companion of a crew member that was surgically operated in the military hospital of the previously mentioned city.

    According to a encrypted telegram by the High Commissioner in Morocco to the Presidential Government in the afternoon of the October 15th 1943 aboard the Cañonero Dato, 48 crew members of the submarine, 4 aviators and 16 evaders from the French zone that were confined in the Arsenal de la Carraca in San Fernando (Cádiz) travel to Cádiz.

    By the paper by the Chief of Staff of the Navy in November 1943, the disappearance of the previously mentioned Arsenal of four submarine crew members: A Lieutenant, two Brigadas (the “Brigada” is a military employ in the Spanish Armed Forces, it is a NCO employ and it ranks between the Second Lieutenant and the First Sergeant) and one Sergeant.

    To avoid new prison breaks, leaving the confined compound was forbidden to the personnel.

    A new paper by the Chief of Staff of the Navy dated in December 1943 informs about a new prison break, of two crew members: A Brigada and a Sergeant; this new prison break caused an energetic protest by the British Embassy to the Spanish authorities, resulting in these being forced to make a investigation that would verify the enlistment of these two evaders into the Spanish Legion with a false name.

    The Commander Albrecht Brandi was able to escape himself from the guards near the city of Madrid, while he was being transferred by train from Algeciras to Madrid, and he presents himself in the Third Reich Embassy, where he is provided with a passport with a false name, being able to cross the French border, and within some days he presented himself to the Admiral Doenitz, Commander of the submarine forces, in Berlin.



    Dear readers and mates from the Forum, if you are in possession of interesting materials for our investigation such as photographs, don’t hesitate to share them with us in this project.

    As a member of our Historical Investigation group, I thank you in advance.





    Jan.







    U-617 12/Sept/1943 Albrecht Brandi Karl Dönitz Doenitz U617



    Queridos compañeros y amigos de Foro:



    Soy Juan Jaramillo y Blasco. Participo con otros compañeros del Foro U-Historia en la Investigación Histórica que está realizando Emilio Umbría acerca del U-617



    Está a punto de culminar un trabajo de investigación histórica de más de 9 años de duración, sobre el incidente acaecido en la desembocadura del Río Kert, cerca de Melilla en septiembre de 1943, tras embarrancar el submarino de nacionalidad alemana U-617 al mando del Kapitänleutnant Albrecht Brandi.



    Han sido años de Compilación de todo tipo de materiales: Documentación secreta y confidencial expresamente desclasificada a petición para ser incorporada, procedente de diversos Archivos Gubernamentales Nacionales, Peticiones formales a la Embajada Alemana en Madrid, Colaboración, Recopilación e Intercambio con muy diferentes personas y Organismos tanto de nuestro país, como del Extranjero.

    Con la inestimable ayuda, presencia y colaboración en esta tarea tanto de amigos como de personas que en el desempeño de sus funciones nos han prestado su apoyo, presentaremos ante el público aficionado este nuevo trabajo de investigación que muestre una vez más la imbricación de la Historia de España en el contexto histórico de la Segunda Guerra Mundial.



    Os presento al Equipo:

    Emilio Umbría - Director de Investigación

    Luis Montero –Logan-

    Luis Borrás –Spoon-

    Juan Jaramillo –Jan7-



    Pequeña síntesis histórica de la investigación:

    Según se desprende de la documentación que obra en nuestro poder se constatan los siguientes hechos: Que éste fue atacado por la fuerza aérea y la marina británica, incluso una vez embarrancado dentro de aguas jurisdiccionales españolas, la tripulación en su totalidad se ponía a salvo en la costa, siendo posteriormente rescatada en tierra por el ejercito español y conducida al acuartelamiento de la Legión en Tahuima en Nador (protectorado español en Marruecos ), algunos días después la tripulación del submarino es conducida a Xauen (protectorado español en Marruecos) en dos expediciones. Sólo dos miembros de la tripulación de este permanecerán en Melilla, el Teniente Ferdinand von Arco como acompañante de un miembro de la tripulación que es intervenido quirúrgicamente en el hospital militar de esta ciudad.

    Según telegrama cifrado del Alto Comisario en Marruecos a la Presidencia del Gobierno en la tarde del día 15 de octubre de 1943 a bordo del Cañonero Dato salen hacia Cádiz, 48 tripulantes del submarino, 4 aviadores y 16 evadidos de la zona francesa que quedaran internados en el Arsenal de la Carraca en San Fernando (Cádiz).

    Según escrito del Estado Mayor de la Armada en Noviembre de 1943, se observó la desaparición de dicho Arsenal de cuatro miembros de la tripulación del submarino: Un Teniente, dos Brigadas y un Sargento.

    Para evitar nuevas fugas se prohibirían en lo sucesivo las salidas del recinto de internamiento a dicho personal.

    Un nuevo escrito del Estado Mayor de la Armada fechado en diciembre de 1943 informa de una nueva fuga, la de dos miembros de dicha tripulación: Un Brigada y un Sargento; esta nueva fuga conllevaría una enérgica protesta por parte de la Embajada Británica ante las autoridades españolas, viéndose obligadas éstas a realizar una investigación que llevara hasta la comprobación de un posible alistamiento de estos dos evadidos en la Legión Española con nombre falso.

    El Comandante Albrecht Brandi, mientras es trasladado en tren desde Algeciras a Madrid, consigue evadirse de sus guardianes cerca de ésta y se presenta en la Embajada del Tercer Reich, allí se le proporciona un pasaporte con nombre falso, consiguiendo cruzar la frontera francesa, y en unos días se presenta en Berlín al Almirante Doenitz , Jefe de las Fuerzas de Submarinos.



    Permitidme, queridos lectores y compañeros de Foro, si tenéis en vuestro poder materiales interesantes para nuestra investigación tales como fotografías, que os anime a compartirlas con nosotros en este proyecto.

    Como representante de nuestro grupo de Investigación Histórica, os lo agradezco en este momento.







    Jan.
     
  2. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    The Allied ships implicated in the finally gunfire of U-617 are as follow:
    K-84 HMS “Hyacinth” (Flower Corvette)​
    HMS 306 Trawler “Haarlem” ​
    J-172 es la HMSA “Wollongong” (Australian warship)​
    Los buques aliados implicados en el cañoneo final al U-617 fueron:
    La K-84 es el HMS “Hyacinth” (Corbeta clase Flower)​
    La HMS 306 era el Arrastrero “Haarlem” ( Buque de pesca armado)​
    La J-172 es la HMSA “Wollongong” (Barco australiano)​




    Jan.​
     
  3. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    Pretty cool stuff jan:D
     
  4. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    More data of the attack as referred in books, thanks a friend of other Forum and research the web:

    Dear Friends of Forum:
    As all you seen in my last post and as said to all in my presentation, I'm in a Historical Investigation on U-617:
    As all you seen in this post of Liberator Surrender of U 570 - World War II Forums
    And in this pages
    I am now in a research of photos or any the aircrafts who are destinated In the RAF Gibraltar Base or any material similar and adequate for complete our Investigation. Also, in the Photo Gallery of Forum exist one photo of one of this aircraft Warbird Photo Album - Vickers Wellington GR.Mk.XIV Do any of all you, my dear friends of Forum, why do I will locate HQ photos of these aircrafts ?

    As a member of our Historical Investigation group, I thank you in advance.


    Jan.
     
  5. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    Sorry i dont have any pics for you but you might try Erich he might have something. Glad to hear your still progressing:D
     
  6. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    Dear friends:

    As all you seen in my posts, I'm in a investigation on german U-617 and his attack for Wellington of RAF Gibraltar. In this incident, died of wounds infliged the Flighth Sergeant RNZAF Walter Jones in the day 12/Sept/1943. Before several years, check CWGC, friends and other sources, I arrived at last at Air Force Museum Christchurch Attraction New Zealand Tourist Attractions Christchurch Entertainment and keep in contact with Miss Vicky Carrington in CONTACT who sent by mailpost his personal files in expedient, a matter very important for the rigth develope of our Research.



    Jan.
     
  7. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    #7 Jan7, Jun 13, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: SLATTER MARY, MS
    To: Juan Jaramillo
    Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:51 AM
    Subject: FW: F/S. W. Jones 12/September/1943 unclassified

    Dear Juan,
    Attached is a page from "For Your Tomorrow" by Errol Martin. (Published in Christchurch in 1999, by Volplane Press.)
    I can find no mention of him being posthumously decorated.
    As we are a library and not an archive, unfortunately we do not have any photos relating to W. Jones.
    You might like to contact the RNZAF Museum -
    Best wishes,

    Mary Slatter
    User Services Librarian
    Defence Library
    HQ NZDF
    Private Bag
    Wellington
    Ph 04 496 0842
    Fax 04 496 0867


    Transcripción del libro menciondo por Mary:
    Transcription of the book mentionated for Mary:

    Sun 12 Sep 1943
    COASTAL COMMAND
    U-boat hunt
    179 Squadron, RAF (Gibraltar)
    Wellington XIV HF143/J - took off at 0223 captained by PIt 0ff W H Brunini, RAF, to attack U-617, which had previously been damaged and was unable to submerge. On arriving over the target area off the Moroccan coast at position 3513N:0321W at 0315, dived down gradually to 80 feet and switched on the Leigh Light. Fire was opened simultaneously, a cannon shell from the submarine exploding in the rear turret and mortally wounding the rear gunner as depth charges were dropped. During a second attack the gunner still managed to get off some shots, but he died a few minutes after the action had ceased. The Wellington landed safely back at base at 0745 with the remainder of its five crew unharmed. Their comrade was buried at sea off Gibraltar at 1430 the following day, his name being commemorated on the Gibraltar Memorial. (Note: A number of accounts wrongly date the action as being on the 11th and incorrectly identify the rear gunner as RAAF.)
    Rear Gunner NZ404607 Flt Sgt Walter JONES, RNZAF - Age 22. 558 4l st op.
    CWGC register incorrectly gives Jones number as 40467.


    The Leigh Ligth:
    This device is fitted in the bottom of Wellington, and switched on in the last moment -previously are detected means radar-
    HUNTING U-BOATS IN THE BAY OF BISCAY | NZETC
    The aircraft is similar at this:
    [​IMG]Is a miniature, clic for enlarge.
    Provided by: http://www.military-aircraft-photos.com
     
  8. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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  9. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Jan, the only thing I have come across is this:

    12 September 1943

    "The German submarine U-617 runs aground under British aerial attack by RAF Hudsons of No 48 and No 233 Squadrons and FAA Swordfish Mk IIs of No 833 and No. 886 Squadrons, all four based at Gibraltar, in the Mediterranean near Melilla, in position 35.38N, 03.27W. The wreck was destroyed by gunfire from the RN corvette HMS 'Hyacinth' and the RAN minesweeper HMAS 'Woollongong'. All 49 crewmen on the U-boat survive. (Jack McKillop)"

    Might want to try and contact Mr. McKillop as he seems to have a lot of sub related material.
     
  10. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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  11. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    Dear Njaco and others friends of Forum:

    If you wish know more of this device, go to this post: The Leigh Light - World War 2 Talk

    Are information very valuable.



    Jan.
     
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