Was the impending Pearl Harbor attack known in advance?

[syscom3]

I like debunking these stupid conspiricies.

Your thoughts?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

It was evident that something was going to happen during the first week of December, 1941. From Malaysia to Pearl Harbor, there were preparations for some kind of action by US, Dutch and Commonwealth forces and there have been encounters and skirmishes with the Japanese for months. There were spottings of the Japanese invasion force that would eventually wind up in the Philippines.

Did Roosevelt know something was going to happen? - YES. Did he know about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance? NO. No way would Roosevelt risk his Pacific Fleet just to get into the war. Although he might of known that the carriers were away from Peal, he had no way to know or control what would have happened to them had they been spotted by the Japanese.

Another stupid conspiracy...

 

[syscom3]

The War Dept was POSITIVE that the Japanese would attack the Philipines.

It simply was not in anyones scenario's that a "2nd rate" country could put a six carrier task force and strike 1/2 way across the Pacific on strongly defended military installations.

 

[Njaco]

Myths like this have consistantly been brought up since man first walked up to 9/11. The US were aware that Japan would do something but it is fantasy to think anyone would ALLOW it. Same thing happened for Poland and Russia during WW2. The blame game for percieved inaction goes on.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

In my wife's grandfather's book "Surviving the Day" he talks about the intelligence traffic the days preceding Pearl Harbor. We (The US) had broken some diplomatic codes but we had no idea the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. He mentions the Philippines as a suspected target.

BTW for those who might doubt this, my wife's grandfather LtCol Frank Grady was on Macarthur's staff. We was a cryptographer and intelligence officer.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree with FBJ on this. We knew something was going to happen, war was inevitable, but when and what we did not know.

 

[trackend]

Here here guys I've never heard so much tripe, war was coming but the details where not a known factor.

 

[Njaco]

You're wrong. Roosevelt knew everything. Nostradamus told him! 8)

 

[Haztoys]

I think the one who did know or maybe knew...Were the Russia's and Stalin...People some times do not understand..The Soviets were realy keeping a eye on Japan ..Do to the Jap-Russia War of some years befor..And Stalin was going to run over the world anyhow..So having the American Fleet sunk ..would of been just fine...I bet Stalin was pissed..That Japan and Germany..Started to try to take over the world ..Now he had to work with the Allieds..He wanted to "BE" the Axis..

Some say Chirchill may of knew too..

FDR should of known..But thats us Americans...Someone has to hit us hard before we see whats going on..

We would of been in it anyhow..Pearl or not..

 

[ToughOmbre]

I like debunking these stupid conspiricies.

Your thoughts?

People that believe the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories also believe that space aliens built the pyramids and Septmber 11th was an inside job.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race. Politicians make a living doing just that every day.

 

[Cyrano]

 

[syscom3]

People that believe the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories also believe that space aliens built the pyramids and Septmber 11th was an inside job.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race. Politicians make a living doing just that every day.

 

[rogthedodge]

3 thoughts on this:

1. there something to do with the international dateline and that it was supposed to be simultaneous with a declaration of war - making it 'honourable / legal'

2. (connected to the above ) I believe FDR was a very clever man and was playing the long-game - he knew that staying out of the war too long would spell disaster / mean a 20 year war

3. history is often re-written to suit the eventual reality

So I think there was an aspect of a blind eye turned / 'day of infamy' fanning of flames to achieve the ultimate goal - joining the just cause.

I'm not saying that he quietly sat there thinking 'in 25 minutes time they're going to killl XXXX yanks and sink our battleships' but that realpolitik is a nasty grubby business and all great leaders have to, perhaps, muddy the waters a bit for the collective overall good.

 

[Negative Creep]

Again, I tihnk they knew some sort of attack was coming, but didn't know where and when. After all, didn't they think Pearl was protected from air attack by the water being too shallow for torpedo attacks? The base certainly wasn't ready for an air raid, the radar setup was basic and ships were grouped close together. I can't see the government having put some of its best ships, and fuel reserves, in harms way. I have however read something similar, that Churchill knew an attack of some sort was coming, but didn't tell the Yanks as it would be a sure fire way to draw them into war.

 

[syscom3]

One question that needs answering (if you believe in conspiricies) is how Churchill or FDR could have known and none of their staff or ministers (cabinet members) did.

 

[Lucky13]

What would have happen if they had acted and sailed out to meet the IJN BEFORE the attack on Pearl Harbor? Would it have resulted in more severe and complete losses of ships and men? Instead for the ships that were salvaged and put back into service, they would have sunk, how would the USN have recovered?

 

[machine shop tom]

The only people who knew the details, timetable, and target of the attack were the Japanese who were involved in the planning and carrying out of the event. That the Americans knew OF a possible imminent attack didn't mean that they purposely let it happen. And Britain certainly didn't have anything to gain by having it's principle ally involved in a war halfway around the world, and I don't think Churchill was interested in losing half of the British Empire just to get the Americans involved.

 

[syscom3]

What would have happen if they had acted and sailed out to meet the IJN BEFORE the attack on Pearl Harbor? Would it have resulted in more severe and complete losses of ships and men? Instead for the ships that were salvaged and put back into service, they would have sunk, how would the USN have recovered?

Interesting question.

I think it might have done us better in the long run to have the battleships sunk in shallow waters, than deep in the Pacific and unrecoverable.

 

[Gnomey]

Interesting question.

I think it might have done us better in the long run to have the battleships sunk in shallow waters, than deep in the Pacific and unrecoverable.

True but then counteract that with the fact the Americans could of sunk 1 or 2 of the Japanese carriers and perhaps a number of support ships. With these losses Midway might not of happened (or at least happened later) and it that had panned out as it did then the Japanese could of been 5 or 6 carriers down (instead of 4) as well as perhaps losing some Battleships (Yamato?) and maybe killing Yamamoto in the process?

 

[syscom3]

True but then counteract that with the fact the Americans could of sunk 1 or 2 of the Japanese carriers and perhaps a number of support ships. With these losses Midway might not of happened (or at least happened later) and it that had panned out as it did then the Japanese could of been 5 or 6 carriers down (instead of 4) as well as perhaps losing some Battleships (Yamato?) and maybe killing Yamamoto in the process?

The battleships were sitting ducks to any type of air attack (as you brits learned a few days later with the PofW and repulse).

Besides, the battleships at Pearl were slow and incapable of catching up to the fast moving Japanese carrier forces, and we only had a single carrier within striking distance of the Japanese.