What if the Allies only had one fighter during the war?

[MikeGazdik]

The overall question needs to be rephrased unless we are going to be limited to fighters in operation in 1939, when the war began. If the one fighter for the allies did not have to be available in 39-40, then there is only one choice. The F4U.

I agree totally.

 

[drgondog]

I would no doubt select the Hellcat or P-47. The Hellcat was versatile and great from carriers. With slight modifications it could have been used in the ETO. The Jug was a fantastic multi-role aircraft both for escort and ground attack although carrier use would be problematic without longer flight decks. I think the radial vs inline argument should play a part from those of you with knowledge in that area. The F6F-5 in its final form or the P-47N would have carried us all the way at the end. The P-51 is a strong third but came on a little bit later for early consideration as did the F4U with its intial teething problems. Great discussion.

Both the 51 and F4U flew first, six months and 12 months, respectively, before the P-47's first flight.

The Jug had as many teething problems as the F4U and both of those entered combat service about a year after the Mustang I was flying for RAF, then the P-51B entered combat ops about 6 months after the other two - but the P-51 was in combat long before either the F4U or P-47.

If the 51 was chosen as The fighter in May 1940 when the contract was let, the Packard Merlin could have been designed into the Mustang from day one, and a carrier based version could have started immediately - both would have been flying before Pearl Harbor - particularly if the wing had been subcontracted to Grumman.

It would Not have been as easy to land as the F4U but it should have been capable of landing with a greater percentage of accidents than the F4F and F6F.

On the latter (F6F), if the 51 had been designed from day 1 with packard merlin it would have been in Solomons campaign easily before the F4U (and F6F) actually made it. On the other hand if all the eggs for the USN were in one basket, the F4U issues would have been solved earlier and the Navy would have accepted higher accident rates also.

While the Mustang probably would have been less effective in Tac Air, the 8th AF loss rate for the 51 for strafing airfields was actually superior to the P-47 (and P-38) if the metric was number of a/c destroyed on ground per fighter lost strafing.

 

[drgondog]

The overall question needs to be rephrased unless we are going to be limited to fighters in operation in 1939, when the war began. If the one fighter for the allies did not have to be available in 39-40, then there is only one choice. The F4U.

Ren - the 51 flew six months after the F4U - both before Pearl Harbor, both after WWII started.

The Mustang I was in combat nearly a year before the F4U.

 

[renrich]

Bill, of course, you are right. Actually, when one looks at the chronology of the development of the Mustang, it proves what a wonder it was. There may never have been a design that went from a blank sheet of paper to being an effective AC as fast as the Mustang. I am partial to the name also as I went to high school and played football at Thomas Jefferson High in San Antonio, the Mustangs and graduated from Southern Methodist University, the Mustangs. As we have discussed before, though, I still think if the allies could have had only one fighter, timing irrespective except that it had to serve in WW2 and if it had to be ship board qualified, I would have chosen the Corsair. Aside from weight and balance issues and low speed controllability, in readying a Mustang to fly off of carriers, I wonder how salt water deposits would have treated the finish on the wings and fuselage of the Stang?

 

[drgondog]

Bill, of course, you are right. Actually, when one looks at the chronology of the development of the Mustang, it proves what a wonder it was. There may never have been a design that went from a blank sheet of paper to being an effective AC as fast as the Mustang. I am partial to the name also as I went to high school and played football at Thomas Jefferson High in San Antonio, the Mustangs and graduated from Southern Methodist University, the Mustangs. As we have discussed before, though, I still think if the allies could have had only one fighter, timing irrespective except that it had to serve in WW2 and if it had to be ship board qualified, I would have chosen the Corsair. Aside from weight and balance issues and low speed controllability, in readying a Mustang to fly off of carriers, I wonder how salt water deposits would have treated the finish on the wings and fuselage of the Stang?

As you know I agree that the F4U would have to be the single choice for all missions, carrier based, land based, fighter bomber, night fighter, escort fighter, recon...

Obviously RAF and LW and IJN and USSR would have to make their own choices... and the R-2800 -18 and -12 would have to have accelerated devleopment to make it a comparable interceptor at high altitudes as the Spit... but it would have been good enough to stay with bomber technology through the war.

 

[Vincenzo]

wrong

a moderator can delete this

 

[drgondog]

wrong

a moderator can delete this

why delete - just pose 'right' - whatever you think that is.

 

[MikeGazdik]

I overlooked the Mustang. The Army kind of put it on the back burner too I believe, so it could have been in service long before it even was with the U.S.

 

[renrich]

Bill, what you brought up about the R2800 is an important point. I have Boone Guyton's book, "Whistling Death." He was the chief test pilot on the Corsair project and the R2800 was a new and untried engine in 1940 as well as the Hamilton Standard prop that was used by the Corsair. One of the factors that caused the Corsair to have it's extended maturation process was that they had a world of trouble with the engine and to a lesser extent the prop. In fact, one of the many engine failures almost killed Guyton and caused him an extended stay in the hospital. The later AC, P47, Hellcat, etc. that used the R2800 benefited from the Corsair program.

 

[Valo300]

Were i in Ike's shoes(i presume it would be his decision?) i would perhaps select the P38J and later models if i could only have one fighter type. It and it alone could literally do everything.

Air supremacy
LR bomber escort
LR interceptor
Night fighter
Close support
Deep interdiction/strike
Torpedo armed anti-shipping
High or low altitude high speed recon
Dive bombing (J and later)
Level bombing with Norden bomb sight and glazed nose
Carrier capable (Lockheed built prototype "model 822" for carrier operations)

The P51 and F4U would both also be very strong choices.

 

[fly boy]

p-51 maybe refit for carrier ops and night fighting

 

[Valo300]

Did NA ever make a carrier prototype?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Did NA ever make a carrier prototype?

...................

 

[drgondog]

Were i in Ike's shoes(i presume it would be his decision?) i would perhaps select the P38J and later models if i could only have one fighter type. It and it alone could literally do everything.

Air supremacy
LR bomber escort
LR interceptor
Night fighter
Close support
Deep interdiction/strike
Torpedo armed anti-shipping
High or low altitude high speed recon
Dive bombing (J and later)
Level bombing with Norden bomb sight and glazed nose
Carrier capable (Lockheed built prototype "model 822" for carrier operations)

The P51 and F4U would both also be very strong choices.

If the postulate is that the pick must be flying before WWII, the P-38 is the only possible choice (US) as the P-51/47 and F4U all flew in mid 1940 to mid 1941.

Of course it would have posed serious challenges converting to a shipboard fighter - on the other hand - with introduction of early dive brake/manuevering flaps it would have made a pretty nice possible replacement for SBD and the F4F. It was pretty fast with two 1000 pound bombs and would have had a lot more speed and capability in defense against zeros early on.

Had the USAAF been forced to pick the P-38 in 1939 it could have been thoroughly tested in US, export models would have reached Britain for early evaluation (still fail but much earlier start on improvements) and probably have fixed compressibility and intercooler issues by mid 1942.. Combat operations and deployment could have stated with E and F's possibly in late 41, with late J mods arriving in mid 1943.