Do we really need to belabor the obvious?
FIREPOWER MATTERS!
What if the U.S. and the USAAF had paid attention?
- Thread starter Akuma
- Start date
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FIREPOWER MATTERS!
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
And NEITHER had it!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Not nessecarily.
The KI-43 had comparable performance to the A6M, including a longer combat radius than contemporary US fighters.
As it happens, the IJA did have units on Formosa (50th Air Squadron) and flew their KI-27s (which also had a long ferry range) across to the Philippines to fight during the December invasion.
I'll take two 20s and two 7.7s over two 7.7s any day. You can shoot 7.7s into a B17 until the cows come home and still not bring it down.
Translation of Volume 34 of Senshi Sosho on Army Air Force Operations is online
Senshi Sosho is the official Japanese history of the war. Today 2021 this Volume 34 is the only one of few 102 volumes to be translated into English after some 40 years!
It contains WW2 operations up to ~march 1942, including Philippines battle and lots of great technical reasoning (Japan Army Air force shortage of fuel problems & early problem of Ki-43 wings falling off!).
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Evidently, both types had enough firepower to ruin a good number of Allied pilots' day.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
We ain't talking B-17s. We're talking paper-mache vs aluminum foil!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Hyabusa's .30MGs were enough to shred anything that didn't have armor protection, including hapless crewmen that were on the receiving end.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,031
- Jun 25, 2013
Arguably, the A6M was armed more heavily than any US fighter in service in 1942.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
P-38?
Attachments
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The late 30's U.S. warplanes tended to have one .30MG and one .50MG (typically cowl mounted) and some also had one .30MG in each wing.
If memory serves right, it was the SBD that had the first two .50MG (cowl mounted) arrangement.
By 1941, this was starting to change and by 1942, virtually all U.S. aircraft were equipped with .50MG armament (except the B-25 nose MG, which remained a .30 cal).
If memory serves right, it was the SBD that had the first two .50MG (cowl mounted) arrangement.
By 1941, this was starting to change and by 1942, virtually all U.S. aircraft were equipped with .50MG armament (except the B-25 nose MG, which remained a .30 cal).
MAY be, but the only serious damage to Lew Slagle's F4F was done by 20MMs. The rest was just punctured sheet metal. That was pretty obvious from the photo. Landing gear and flap retraction and wing fold mechanisms were all shattered, and there were big holes in the aft fuselage and under the belly.
- Thread starter
- #73
Lets assume for the moment that the U.S. military saw the emergence of the A6M in September 1940 and through the following months as a sort of advance in design on the Ki-27. (This of course also assumes that the relevant authorities saw the Nakajima as a reasonably good aircraft even if not as good as the P-40, P-35, etc.) It would seem reasonable that they should look at their aircraft under development, especially those that might be operational in the Pacific and at least try to tweak the performance of those machines. In August 1939 Larry Bell proposed that the Turbocharger be removed from the P-39, leaving only the engines 1st stage supercharger. Is it so unreasonable that given the realization of needed improved performance the USAAC/F could have directed Bell to take steps in redesign in order to reinstall the Turbo? Also the first test flight of the XF5F was April of 1940 and it's development might have been given a little push.
With the P39, building in an effective turbocharger would have required a complete redesign and enlargement of the basic airplane. There just wasn't enough room in that diminutive airframe to do it right. The XP39's turbo was grafted on the side like a wart on a toad. There just wasn't enough horsepower available to give good performance with that enlarged airframe and all the weighty items to make it combat ready. (Guns, ammo, armor, self-sealing tanks, etc.)
The F5F represented a numbers problem. Engine availability constraints dictated that every F5F would cost you two F4Fs not built. It MAY have been better than the Wildcat, but not likely TWICE as good.
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Actually the XP-39 turbo was directly below the engine where the radiators were installed after the turbo was deleted. This turbo was a Rube Goldberg arrangement with no chance whatsoever of being reliable enough for combat even with a development program as long as the P-38 or P-47. A lightened P-39D would have had about the same performance as the turbo XP-39.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
To gain what? Maybe the P-40 and P-39 "could have" been lightened (as discussed in another thread). Unless directed by either the AAC or the Navy, the manufactures of the day were going to press on with their product unless there was something that really jumped out at them, and as good as the Zero was in the beginning of the war, I don't see that happening.
The XF5F? It evolved into the F7F.
Maybe the P43 would have been built with actual fuel tanks instead of wet wings that leaked all the time.
Torpedos, both air launched and surface type might have been tested better.
Realistic training attacks by B17's against maneuvering ships with dummy bombs from proposed attack altitudes showing that hits are unrealistic.
Torpedos, both air launched and surface type might have been tested better.
Realistic training attacks by B17's against maneuvering ships with dummy bombs from proposed attack altitudes showing that hits are unrealistic.
The F4F-3 and F4F-4 Wildcat both used P&W 2 STAGE engines, the XF5F used Wright 1820 2 SPEED engines, same as the later model Dauntless used. So there wouldn't have been an engine constraint between those 2.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
All this by listening to Chennault? I doubt it.
Well they didn't listen to Chennault at all. But the question was "what if they had listened or paid attention?". They weren't going to get the Hellcat or Corsair any quicker. They might have gotten the P51 quicker if they hadn't left it sitting on an airfield for several months after that one test pilot said it was junk. Not sure if P38 could have been speeded up or not.
