Who won Vietnam?!?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

no Versailles is a good example for what pD's saying, Europe had been changing for a long time and borders were always changing, 100 years before we wouldn't have thought twice about going into and occupying Germany and that's what we should've done instead of making the peace, going into Germany would've shown the people that they had been defeated and not given Hitler the chance to say that they were stabbed in the back, so in this case the extra war of taking Germany itself would've been far better than the uneasy peace, but it's understandable that after 4 years of war they'd want the peace!

 

[mkloby]

no Versailles is a good example for what pD's saying, Europe had been changing for a long time and borders were always changing, 100 years before we wouldn't have thought twice about going into and occupying Germany and that's what we should've done instead of making the peace, going into Germany would've shown the people that they had been defeated and not given Hitler the chance to say that they were stabbed in the back, so in this case the extra war of taking Germany itself would've been far better than the uneasy peace, but it's understandable that after 4 years of war they'd want the peace!

OOPS! Chalk that one up to me not reading the post right! I read it as "a bad peace is better than war."

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

oh you don't tell your wife, a mistake of those proportions would be bad news for you

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hussars that is a total crapper ............

Chris no kidding, my eldest brother inlaw was a navy corp-man on the front lines in Nam and was nearly killed in by a trip-wired bomb explosion; every morning still his bedsheets show the sign of micronized shrapnel ......... with the loss of two finger tips and scarring on his chest, he still reacts - ducks even when fireworks are popped at 4th of July.

Lets face it my generation serving in Nam we will not get over it ever ........ we were never de-briefed when we got home, just given the word go make something of yourself

When I first came home. The backfire of a car or fire cracker made me jump or dive for cover. I could not stand being around large groups of people and did not trust people that I did not know.

I have since gotten used to it and it no longer bothers me. It was a time of adjustment though.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

deleted . good luck to you all.

So your gonna give up because people dont agree with you?

 

[plan_D]

mkloby, I'm sorry, but I have to call you a dip sh*t. At least you realised your mistake... bloody pilots.

 

[mkloby]

mkloby, I'm sorry, but I have to call you a dip sh*t. At least you realised your mistake... bloody pilots.

Yeah yeah.... I disagreed with you then posted about how I agreed with you... You should see some of the mistakes I pulled in primary flight training....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

 

[Emac44]

So your gonna give up because people dont agree with you?

Adler think Crow may have more problems with his passed Vietnam experiences then he is letting on and blames others or becomes irrational etc. It happens at times. which doesn't mean to say Crow isn't a decent person by any means. he more than likely is a good man

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am not argueing with you on that. I never got an impression that he was a bad guy. But he could have stuck around and discussed this and maybe the people that did not agree with him would get a better understanding of his feelings.

 

[Hunter368]

Perhaps it was the fact he felt that several people including a Mod were siding against him and he had no reasonable chance to explain himself.

Perhaps that is my guess anyways. Too bad its always nice to hear other people ideas even if you don't always agree with them.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Then he should have said something. You have to be thick skinned around here and also realize that people dont agree with you and dont push them so hard because they dont agree with you. He did get a bit pushy but I dont think anyone really went overboard on him.

 

[Hunter368]

Then he should have said something. You have to be thick skinned around here and also realize that people dont agree with you and dont push them so hard because they dont agree with you. He did get a bit pushy but I dont think anyone really went overboard on him.

No no I am not saying you did or anyone else did. I am just saying I am guessing thats what made him leave but I don't really know.

Yes being thick skinned around here at times is a must. Believe me shortly after I came here I went round and round with you, Joe and Dan (for about 10 pages if I recall). It did not bother me, I sort of like that sort of thing at times. The reason why I stopped was I realized you guys were ........ right. Simply I was wrong, I am not afraid of arguing by any means but I was wrong that time and was not too proud to admit it. Believe me I don't always agree with the Mods here but I choose my words little more wisely now, not b/c I am afraid of being banned or arguing (I can change my IP address any time I want) but b/c I am just .......have respect for you guys and your experences. I might not agree now with you but perhaps in a month I will see your side a little more clearly, but until then I should not post disrepectfully or rudely just b/c I don't agree. That is what happened when I had a major arguement with you three Mods when I came here, you guys made your points and I thought about them for about a week. Then I realized you were right. Although I don't always agree with you Mods, you have taught me to be a better poster and forum user. I thank you for that.

But for most people its hard to except being pointed out for being wrong and still stick around. I think he felt the heat getting alittle too hot for him so he bailed instead. At times the heat around here can go from room temp to the gates of Hell in about 10 mins. LOL It can scare people off at times.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Disagreeing is not a bad thing. In fact that is what make forums fun. Getting different views out there. It all just comes down to presentation.

 

[plan_D]

The heated debates don't make me run; I just wave my penis at traffic.

 

[Bernhart]

My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves.

Bingo!

 

[Hunter368]

My opinion, and (mind you I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination)
north vietnam didn't so much as win as the Americans beat themselves.

But the other side of that is that the perception by most people (non-military types) including enemys of the States, is that NVA won that war.

That gives them hope, gives them faith that they to can beat the "evil USA", they just have to use the right tatics. Now you have ever little nut job country with its beef vs USA standing up to them.

When you are the toughest guy on the block you don't even have to throw a punch to win 99% of fights, you scare them. Now every punkazz country and dictator stands up to the USA and says FU USA....what are you going to do about it? Now USA does have the get tough in every fight (or at least alot more than ever before) before anyone listens to her. Like I always say when you are in a fight and punchs are thrown rarely does either side come out of it not being hurt.

Thats where we are now. No one fears the USA like they used to. Now everyone thinks that can take on the USA and win.

Whats does that cost USA..........American dollars and soldiers.

And if you are the President of the USA it costs you your job.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Politics is what lost Vietnam...

 

[Hunter368]

Politics is what lost Vietnam...

Oh I agree. But perception is reality. Most people see USA having lost to the NVA, that inspires them to also stand up to the USA. USA is still feeling the effects of that war today b/c now every third world dictator stands up to them.

Whether you want to argue that USA lost the war or not (and why) the fact remains that she as good as lost the war. USA lost face there, USA lost respect, USA to many lost a war, USA lost her invincibility, US public lost some will to fight.

It does not matter how USA lost the war she still lost it in the minds of many people.