A4K
Brigadier General
Fantastic work Gerry!
1:32 scale Lancaster Mk.1 Hachette Partworks
- Thread starter Gerry
- Start date
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N4521U
Colonel
What Paul said..... a seriously great build!
- Thread starter
- #103
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Thank you gentlemen for your latest posts. I am overwhelmed by the generosity of your comments. I am also a little embarrassed by my lack of progress on new material to post. I am even more embarrassed by the fact that I obviously can't tell my a**e from my elbow. The caption for the tanks was wrong and should have read... 'the top of the port tank and underside of the s/board one.' Not that it makes much difference visually, but if mounted like that, the straps would be out of position for the ribs.
I was quite surprised to discover that these large inner tanks were only held in place by straps. These tanks had a capacity of 580 gallons each. I haven't the ability to convert that into weight, - maybe somebody with a engineering or fluid dynamics degree might - but I'd imagine that that's a lot of weight to be sloshing around in the wings. Especially when there was also a centre tank (383 gallons) and an outer tank (114 gallons) in each wing. To the best of my knowledge the centre tank was also strap supported, whilst the outer tank was supported by strengthened ribs. If you were forced to throw the aircraft around the sky in evasive manoeuvres, you would need a lot of faith in the strength of the straps and indeed, the fastenings.
Anyhow, these musings are really an excuse for not getting on with the build. Now I've been rumbled, I'd better get back to it.
Sláinte,
Gerry
I was quite surprised to discover that these large inner tanks were only held in place by straps. These tanks had a capacity of 580 gallons each. I haven't the ability to convert that into weight, - maybe somebody with a engineering or fluid dynamics degree might - but I'd imagine that that's a lot of weight to be sloshing around in the wings. Especially when there was also a centre tank (383 gallons) and an outer tank (114 gallons) in each wing. To the best of my knowledge the centre tank was also strap supported, whilst the outer tank was supported by strengthened ribs. If you were forced to throw the aircraft around the sky in evasive manoeuvres, you would need a lot of faith in the strength of the straps and indeed, the fastenings.
Anyhow, these musings are really an excuse for not getting on with the build. Now I've been rumbled, I'd better get back to it.
Sláinte,
Gerry
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Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Um, 580 gallons (imp) weighs roughly 4128lbs or 1872kg by my calculations...but I'm willing to stand corrected.
With that much they would needs straps like the Christian Brothers used to belt us with at school to hold them in
Now get on with it Gerry!!!!
With that much they would needs straps like the Christian Brothers used to belt us with at school to hold them in
Now get on with it Gerry!!!!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yep, I always used to think in terms of approximately 10 Pounds per gallon, or just under, when carrying Jerry Cans in my old Land Rover. This allowed for the weight of the can, at around 50lb per can, so Darryl's calculation looks about right. (water is 10lb per gallon, fuel slightly less, so, with the can, or tank, round it out to 10lb and you're not far wrong!)
Looks great so far Gerry!
N4521U
Colonel
Yep, roughly 7.2lbs per Gal. I would imagine outer wing tanks would be used up first, the most effect on spin. Baffles in the tanks would help keep the slosh factor down.
BTW, Is there fuel dripping from the overflow tube there??????
The kudos are well deserved. You're doin it right, one piece at a time, and each done well.
Bravo.
BTW, Is there fuel dripping from the overflow tube there??????
The kudos are well deserved. You're doin it right, one piece at a time, and each done well.
Bravo.
- Thread starter
- #108
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Thanks to Darryl, Terry and Bill for taking the trouble to make those fluid to weight conversions and also to Gnomey. I'm still in awe of the weight the straps supported. And Darryl, I remember those CBS straps all too well. I reckon they would have supported the weight of a King Tiger! Bill, no fuel yet, the tanks are still empty.
N4521U
Colonel
Somehow, that weight stays in the back of your mind, long after ground school. It's something that Must be remembered.
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Particularly with some of the newer aircraft (eg C172R) where full fuel and even 3 out of 4 passsengers can put you 7kg overweight, just on standard passenger weight.
Oh, yes, and I know : NEVER use "standard" passenger weight in a light aircraft!!!
Oh, yes, and I know : NEVER use "standard" passenger weight in a light aircraft!!!
N4521U
Colonel
Yep, I took off from Jamestown Sonora A/P with me a my then large girl friend. Waited till the afternoon to cool. 2,700 ft MSL field elevation, got up to 3,000 ft MSL and couldn't get an inch more!!!!!! Good thing we were above the tree line!
- Thread starter
- #112
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Interesting topic, Guys. I'm sure weight is a crucial issue, particularly in small private commercial aircraft but hopefully they won't start charging passengers by weight here as they've started to do in Tonga, I think - otherwise I'm bu**ered!
To try and keep the build motoring along here's what I've been up to since my last post. Very little new, I'm afraid but I have been going back over and refining some of the work I previously posted.
Photo 1. From the material Terry sent I discovered that the early Lancs had 3 windows looking into the bomb bay. The kit had only two (a late Lanc?). So, as S-Sugar was an early Mk 1, I took my courage, and my Dremmel, in hand and added the third (A). Despite the fact that this was awkward to drill straight, with a light sanding, it turned out OK.
Photo 2. Then on to the little original work I did. First the Pilot's control column. This is diecast metal and came in two parts, so easy to assemble. Also in these issues came the document bins for the side of the pilot's platform. These were shaped in flat metal and had to be bent into shape and painted. These are upside down, as I thought we might be able to see the openings a little better.
Photo 3. Then I went back and enhanced the pilot's seat a bit more, based on the original photo attached. I wasn't happy that it was 3-D enough as it came with the kit, so I added the back braces, front edge trim and armrests with various types of rods. I had actually thought I had taken some shots of these in their raw state, but I had forgotten to replace the sim card in the camera and only discovered this when I came to take the latest photos. At some stage I'll have a go at the mesh oxygen bottle holders. Just haven't figured out how to tackle those yet. The adhesive gas patches that came with the kit were almost transparent when applied on the black and were useless unless placed on white first. I got around this by punching some thin yellow paper, stuck to double-sided tape, with a paper punch - luckily approximately the right size. I don't have a punch die set - yet.
Photo 4. The navigator's and radio operator's seats were tackled next . Not too much to say about these except it's a pretty poor photo.
Photo 5 6. As I had the paint mixed, I did the engineer's seat and backrest next. The backrest is upside down. Rightways up, it angles away from the camera. Also painted were the rudder pedals and the crawl pad for the rear gunner that goes across the tailplane spar, as you see roughly positioned in photo 6.
Lastly, 7 8 a couple of shots of the pilot's seat and control column on a drilled piece of fret, just to check how they're lining up. I now need to think about seat belts, not just for the pilot's seat, but for the rest of the crew as well. Not sure if there'll be anything out there in 1:32 except for the pilot? If anyone knows any different i'd be delighted to hear. I don't think it would be too difficult to make the fabric part of the belts, but not sure about the buckles etc.
That's all I have to show for the moment. I probably need to think about the bomb bay next, before I start to stick things into the fuselage. So a bit more when I'm tackling that.
Cheers,
Gerry
To try and keep the build motoring along here's what I've been up to since my last post. Very little new, I'm afraid but I have been going back over and refining some of the work I previously posted.
Photo 1. From the material Terry sent I discovered that the early Lancs had 3 windows looking into the bomb bay. The kit had only two (a late Lanc?). So, as S-Sugar was an early Mk 1, I took my courage, and my Dremmel, in hand and added the third (A). Despite the fact that this was awkward to drill straight, with a light sanding, it turned out OK.
Photo 2. Then on to the little original work I did. First the Pilot's control column. This is diecast metal and came in two parts, so easy to assemble. Also in these issues came the document bins for the side of the pilot's platform. These were shaped in flat metal and had to be bent into shape and painted. These are upside down, as I thought we might be able to see the openings a little better.
Photo 3. Then I went back and enhanced the pilot's seat a bit more, based on the original photo attached. I wasn't happy that it was 3-D enough as it came with the kit, so I added the back braces, front edge trim and armrests with various types of rods. I had actually thought I had taken some shots of these in their raw state, but I had forgotten to replace the sim card in the camera and only discovered this when I came to take the latest photos. At some stage I'll have a go at the mesh oxygen bottle holders. Just haven't figured out how to tackle those yet. The adhesive gas patches that came with the kit were almost transparent when applied on the black and were useless unless placed on white first. I got around this by punching some thin yellow paper, stuck to double-sided tape, with a paper punch - luckily approximately the right size. I don't have a punch die set - yet.
Photo 4. The navigator's and radio operator's seats were tackled next . Not too much to say about these except it's a pretty poor photo.
Photo 5 6. As I had the paint mixed, I did the engineer's seat and backrest next. The backrest is upside down. Rightways up, it angles away from the camera. Also painted were the rudder pedals and the crawl pad for the rear gunner that goes across the tailplane spar, as you see roughly positioned in photo 6.
Lastly, 7 8 a couple of shots of the pilot's seat and control column on a drilled piece of fret, just to check how they're lining up. I now need to think about seat belts, not just for the pilot's seat, but for the rest of the crew as well. Not sure if there'll be anything out there in 1:32 except for the pilot? If anyone knows any different i'd be delighted to hear. I don't think it would be too difficult to make the fabric part of the belts, but not sure about the buckles etc.
That's all I have to show for the moment. I probably need to think about the bomb bay next, before I start to stick things into the fuselage. So a bit more when I'm tackling that.
Cheers,
Gerry
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great stuff Gerry, it's looking better every minute!
For the mesh oxygen bottle 'basket', there are various grades of metal mesh, 'Sylon' mesh, and gauze available from Hannants, and Moldel Hobbies. Apart from the sheets, some of these might be pre-shaped, for use on specific 1/35th scale tank models etc., so you may have to look in other search areas.
If you can't find anything suitable, then surgical gauze, or fine nylon mesh, or maybe voil, as used in curtains and so on, can be used. Cut to shape and form, and coat with clear gloss varnish. This will stiffen it, but it will be flexible enough to bend to shape. Fix with CA, then paint, and it should stay rigid enough for display purposes. (it will bend or deform if pressed of course.)
For the seat belts, HGW do sets of fabric belts (see Vaughan's FW190 thread), including the various types of Sutton and other RAF harnesses. There are two per set, and this would suffice for the pilot's seat, and can be adapted as lap straps etc for the Nav and radio op, and the turrets. They are available from Hannant's, and, from what I've seen, well worth the money.
Alternatively, I think Eduard still do sets of buckles and adjusters, which can be used with the fine fabric from roller blinds. This is not as fine as the 'micro fibre' used in the HGW belts, but looks OK. (If you want some, let me know - I have some almost the exact colour of a Sutton harness, or can be painted to resemble the darker material on some harnesses, which also covers some of the weave slightly. Or, perhaps a local fabric shop might stock micro fibre material).
EDIT: Just noticed the photo showing the oxygen bottle basket appears to be the BBMF Lanc (?). Just check that this was fitted to wartime Lancs, as I can't remember seeing one in period photos. It might be a fire extinguisher holder, or some other 'modern' requirement (maybe the boss's coffee flask!).
For the mesh oxygen bottle 'basket', there are various grades of metal mesh, 'Sylon' mesh, and gauze available from Hannants, and Moldel Hobbies. Apart from the sheets, some of these might be pre-shaped, for use on specific 1/35th scale tank models etc., so you may have to look in other search areas.
If you can't find anything suitable, then surgical gauze, or fine nylon mesh, or maybe voil, as used in curtains and so on, can be used. Cut to shape and form, and coat with clear gloss varnish. This will stiffen it, but it will be flexible enough to bend to shape. Fix with CA, then paint, and it should stay rigid enough for display purposes. (it will bend or deform if pressed of course.)
For the seat belts, HGW do sets of fabric belts (see Vaughan's FW190 thread), including the various types of Sutton and other RAF harnesses. There are two per set, and this would suffice for the pilot's seat, and can be adapted as lap straps etc for the Nav and radio op, and the turrets. They are available from Hannant's, and, from what I've seen, well worth the money.
Alternatively, I think Eduard still do sets of buckles and adjusters, which can be used with the fine fabric from roller blinds. This is not as fine as the 'micro fibre' used in the HGW belts, but looks OK. (If you want some, let me know - I have some almost the exact colour of a Sutton harness, or can be painted to resemble the darker material on some harnesses, which also covers some of the weave slightly. Or, perhaps a local fabric shop might stock micro fibre material).
EDIT: Just noticed the photo showing the oxygen bottle basket appears to be the BBMF Lanc (?). Just check that this was fitted to wartime Lancs, as I can't remember seeing one in period photos. It might be a fire extinguisher holder, or some other 'modern' requirement (maybe the boss's coffee flask!).
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Lovely work so far Gerry!
N4521U
Colonel
Ah-stonishing!
Crimea_River
Marshal
Things are looking fantastic Gerry. The pilot seat is an amazing little model in itself.
I have pics of the bomb bay somewhere and will have a look if you think they may be of use.
I have pics of the bomb bay somewhere and will have a look if you think they may be of use.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Mindblowing!
- Thread starter
- #120
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Thank you all, Terry, Gnomey, Kevin, Bill, Andy Jan, yet again. I think your comments are more than generous.
Terry, thank you for your very informative post and the tips. I am building up an order for Hannants (they have a minimum price of about £30 for overseas orders and I want to get as much as possible in one go). There are also a couple of pieces of material I have already that I want to experiment with for the bottle nets. I believe that they were wartime issue, as I have seen them on at least two other Lancs, including an Australian Mk.VII and the Duxford Lanc. In the Duxford Lanc, they were also beside other crew stations, including the bomb aimer's and radio op's.
Andy, thank you for the offer of photos. I do have some already but most at an acute angle from the POV of somebody standing directly under a parked aircraft. I'm particularly interested in working out where exactly the flat(ish) centre section of the bay begins and ends, as this is something I will need to scratch-build. If you had anything that could throw some light on that, I'd be grateful.
Cheers,
Gerry
Terry, thank you for your very informative post and the tips. I am building up an order for Hannants (they have a minimum price of about £30 for overseas orders and I want to get as much as possible in one go). There are also a couple of pieces of material I have already that I want to experiment with for the bottle nets. I believe that they were wartime issue, as I have seen them on at least two other Lancs, including an Australian Mk.VII and the Duxford Lanc. In the Duxford Lanc, they were also beside other crew stations, including the bomb aimer's and radio op's.
Andy, thank you for the offer of photos. I do have some already but most at an acute angle from the POV of somebody standing directly under a parked aircraft. I'm particularly interested in working out where exactly the flat(ish) centre section of the bay begins and ends, as this is something I will need to scratch-build. If you had anything that could throw some light on that, I'd be grateful.
Cheers,
Gerry
