Coronavirus Thread (1 Viewer)

One last thing. To open everything up, we have to change our draconian ways. It's time to start protecting workers. If you want people to work during a pandemic, give them paid sick leave. When someone is sick, they will stay home and not get 5 to 10 other people sick. Why? because they know they can still feed their families. Then when they are not sick, they go back to work. Doing otherwise, you get exactly what is happening at the meat processing plants.

It works in other places, it can work here too.

Oh no, I'm not going to be dragged into this one. Maybe we should go back on topic?

Hope everyone is still healthy.

Marcel said:

Oh no, I'm not going to be dragged into this one. Maybe we should go back on topic?

Hope everyone is still healthy.

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Technically it is on-topic. Even if people do not want to hear it.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

Another thing that the "But the Ecomony" crowd who just want to open everything up, keep choosing to ignore is that the purpose of the lockdowns was to reduce the number of people becoming critically ill and overburdening our healthcare system. Once all the ICUs are gone, you are going to see a spike in deaths from all sorts of things. Not just from the coronavirus. Flu deaths will go up, infection deaths will go up, fatalities due to car accidents will go up, and fatalities due to otherwise treatable conditions will go up. Because of a lack of resources. It's a simple fact that our healthcare experts have pointed out from day one, and people still refuse to accept.
.

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We are already seeing this in UK DESPITE the health system not being overwhelmed. It is too early to tell why, but it seems people with chest pains (for example) are not seeking help and dying of heart attacks and strokes. People are not visiting doctors or hospitals as they did. For this I blame our press who cant cover any issue without complete hysteria. They give the impression hospital wards are over run, that all wards and care homes with their staff are infected throughout the country and all care homes are little more than places of mass execution. I don't believe in control of the press but many in UK should take a serious look at themselves. So far in UK there are about 8,000 additional unexplained deaths basically caused by people being misled about the situation.

pbehn said:

We are already seeing this in UK DESPITE the health system not being overwhelmed. It is too early to tell why, but it seems people with chest pains (for example) are not seeking help and dying of heart attacks and strokes. People are not visiting doctors or hospitals as they did. For this I blame our press who cant cover any issue without complete hysteria. They give the impression hospital wards are over run, that all wards and care homes with their staff are infected throughout the country and all care homes are little more than places of mass execution. I don't believe in control of the press but many in UK should take a serious look at themselves. So far in UK there are about 8,000 additional unexplained deaths basically caused by people being misled about the situation.

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That is a problem everywhere my friend. Modern news media is a business. It is not here to simply report the news anymore. It is all opinion based, and distorted sensationalized alternative facts to increase ratings and profit.

Earlier in the pandemic, for instance, the media reported that if a child was hospitalized for coronavirus, they would be isolated alone. That the parents could not he with the child at all. Parents were refusing to take their kids to the doctors out of fear their kids would be taken to solitary isolation. It is a frightening thought to any parent or child. Hospitals and doctors had to come out and explain that a parent will always be with their child at all times. That the media was wrong. It took weeks to finally get this through to people.

It's an honest shame how things have gone with the media. Below is not meant to he political. Please do not take it as such. It just explains how media in the US has become.

What actually happened:

A commercial airliner suffered a structural failure and broke apart over the Atlantic ocean. 310 people died.

How CNN reports it:

A commercial airliner crashed over the Atlantic. 310 people are dead. Our panelists here are telling us that this likely occurred because President Trump did not do anything. We need to increase the tax on gasoline.

How Fox News reports it:

A commercial airliner crashed over the Atlantic. 310 people are dead. Trump is telling us that this is all Obama's fault. It's true. We need to bring God back to the airlines.

Choose your poison...

Italy report, 5 pm CEST 1st May, in Italy is national holiday
cases 207,428, +1,965, deaths 28,236, +269, recovered 78,249, +2,304, active cases 100,943, -608, tests 2,053,425, +74,208
fatality rate 13.6%
mortality rate 468 per million
test rate 34 per thousand
positive rate 10.1%
test rate today 1,230 per million
positive rate today 2.6%

Interesting read...

Coronavirus may last 2 years, study warns. And its second wave could be worse.

pbehn said:

For this I blame our press who cant cover any issue without complete hysteria. They give the impression hospital wards are over run, that all wards and care homes with their staff are infected throughout the country and all care homes are little more than places of mass execution. I don't believe in control of the press but many in UK should take a serious look at themselves. So far in UK there are about 8,000 additional unexplained deaths basically caused by people being misled about the situation.

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One of the scare stories being peddled by the press was that surviving infection did not confer immunity and we could all either contract the virus again or it might 'reactivate'. This would make it quite unlike any other corona virus and I thought it was BS at the time. Turns out I was correct.
Researchers at the South Korean centre for disease control and prevention (CDC) now say it is impossible for the COVID-19 virus to reactivate in human bodies.
There have been more than 10,000 confirmed coronavirus cases in South Korea, with 245 deaths. Reported cases of coronavirus patients relapsing after overcoming the disease were actually due to testing failures, something the UK's CMO has maintained all along.

Also, these fatality rates are being over stated. They are based on a ratio of deaths to confirmed cases, but we know that in many countries only symptomatic cases are tested and in many, not even all of those. I have three relatives who have all exhibited classic signs of this virus, one of whom was quite ill. NONE of them were tested and would only have been if they had been admitted to hospital. That's three, in one family, in Surrey, The West Midlands and Lancashire! The actual level of infection must be far higher than being tested, if it wasn't this virus would be less contagious than other recent outbreaks, and we know that is not the case, it is very contagious.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

That is a problem everywhere my friend. Modern news media is a business. It is not here to simply report the news anymore. It is all opinion based, and distorted sensationalized alternative facts to increase ratings and profit.

Earlier in the pandemic, for instance, the media reported that if a child was hospitalized for coronavirus, they would be isolated alone. That the parents could not he with the child at all. Parents were refusing to take their kids to the doctors out of fear their kids would be taken to solitary isolation. It is a frightening thought to any parent or child. Hospitals and doctors had to come out and explain that a parent will always be with their child at all times. That the media was wrong. It took weeks to finally get this through to people.

It's an honest shame how things have gone with the media. Below is not meant to he political. Please do not take it as such. It just explains how media in the US has become.

What actually happened:

A commercial airliner suffered a structural failure and broke apart over the Atlantic ocean. 310 people died.

How CNN reports it:

A commercial airliner crashed over the Atlantic. 310 people are dead. Our panelists here are telling us that this likely occurred because President Trump did not do anything. We need to increase the tax on gasoline.

How Fox News reports it:

A commercial airliner crashed over the Atlantic. 310 people are dead. Our panelists here are telling us that this is all Obama's fault. We need to bring God back to the airlines.

Choose your poison...

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My God, if I could award you the "Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Bacon" for a statement that has never been truer I would

stona said:

One of the scare stories being peddled by the press was that surviving infection did not confer immunity and we could all either contract the virus again or it might 'reactivate'. This would make it quite unlike any other corona virus and I thought it was BS at the time. Turns out I was correct.
Researchers at the South Korean centre for disease control and prevention (CDC) now say it is impossible for the COVID-19 virus to reactivate in human bodies.
There have been more than 10,000 confirmed coronavirus cases in South Korea, with 245 deaths. Reported cases of coronavirus patients relapsing after overcoming the disease were actually due to testing failures, something the UK's CMO has maintained all along.

Also, these fatality rates are being over stated. They are based on a ratio of deaths to confirmed cases, but we know that in many countries only symptomatic cases are tested and in many, not even all of those. I have three relatives who have all exhibited classic signs of this virus, one of whom was quite ill. NONE of them were tested and would only have been if they had been admitted to hospital. That's three, in one family, in Surrey, The West Midlands and Lancashire! The actual level of infection must be far higher than being tested, if it wasn't this virus would be less contagious than other recent outbreaks, and we know that is not the case, it is very contagious.

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There is a difference between a virus "reactivating" and "getting it again". Virologists and doctors are saying they do not know yet if there is immunity.

vikingBerserker said:

My God, if I could award you the "Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Bacon" for a statement that has never been truer I would

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The problem is the millions upon millions of people that believe this stuff.

pbehn said:

We are already seeing this in UK DESPITE the health system not being overwhelmed. It is too early to tell why, but it seems people with chest pains (for example) are not seeking help and dying of heart attacks and strokes. People are not visiting doctors or hospitals as they did. For this I blame our press who cant cover any issue without complete hysteria. They give the impression hospital wards are over run, that all wards and care homes with their staff are infected throughout the country and all care homes are little more than places of mass execution. I don't believe in control of the press but many in UK should take a serious look at themselves. So far in UK there are about 8,000 additional unexplained deaths basically caused by people being misled about the situation.

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This is true but I've not seen the effects to a massive extent. There have been a few where you wonder why they haven't come sooner but the vast majority have been using the services appropriately (actually far more appropriately than usual). You still get them though like the man a saw earlier this week who had 4 days of a 'sore tummy and not opened his bowels' who had a ruptured AAA...

Gnomey said:

This is true but I've not seen the effects to a massive extent. There have been a few where you wonder why they haven't come sooner but the vast majority have been using the services appropriately (actually far more appropriately than usual). You still get them though like the man a saw earlier this week who had 4 days of a 'sore tummy and not opened his bowels' who had a ruptured AAA...

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I was just referring to what was said by Whitty Vincent Tan et al at the daily briefings.

There is some interesting research on how Covid-19 is spread. It seems that most cases arise after people talk, sing or cough to or on each other COVID-19 Superspreader Events in 28 Countries: Critical Patterns and Lessons - Quillette but it is not clear whether the transmission only involves large droplets or aerosols Experts unable to confirm or deny airborne transmission of coronavirus. This is important because large droplets are stopped by face masks whilst aerosols will pass through The scientists in Scotland hoping to discover whether masks help prevent spread of coronavirus or do more harm than good. Of course, this transmission may only be dominating because, following the SARS outbreak, everyone has been urged to wash their hands frequently.

Still, it must all be true. Don't they get their facts from the internet and Wikipedia?

Minnesota report, May 1
cases 5,730***, recovered 2,282, hospitalized 1,096, deaths 371**/***, tested 74,829*/***
fatality rate 6.5%****
mortality rate 65.1 per million
test rate 13.1 per thousand*
*Test kits and reagents are becoming more available, there are currently more available than needed to meet the demands of testing for suspected COVID-19 cases and first responder/healthcare/medical personnel.
**Approximately 78% of Minnesota COVID-19 deaths have been from cases originating in nursing homes and assisted care facilities. As of today, the youngest to die was 30 years old, the oldest was 109. To date, approximately 98% of deaths have occurred in patients with underlying health problems.
***Although the measures used by Minnesota have reduced the rate of spread significantly, our rate of spread (reflected by the 'curve') is still increasing. This is true regardless of whether the controlling factor used is confirmed cases, test rate, or death rate.
****As of today the overall fatality rate in confirmed cases is only 6.5%. However, the fatality rate for confirmed cases in the 70+ age range is 26.5%.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

There is a difference between a virus "reactivating" and "getting it again". Virologists and doctors are saying they do not know yet if there is immunity.

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The Koreans are saying that infection and recovery does confer immunity. What they can't say (obviously) is for how long.

Today's scare story is about Covid-19 causing strokes in healthy people. It is based on a report from the New England Journal of Medicine which details the cases of five people, ages 33 to 49, in New York City who had strokes and subsequently tested positive for Covid-19. All of them had large-vessel strokes outside of the hospital before experiencing other severe symptoms of the virus; one of them has since died.

What is a healthy person? There was a recent article in the UK about a 'healthy' 37 year old man succumbing to the virus. That was the headline. I bothered to read the article. His wife said he was healthy, but he suffered from Type 2 Diabetes and had a heart attack four years earlier. Healthy? Public Health England classifies Type 2 Diabetes as 'a serious medical condition' and it is a known factor increasing the chances of serious symptoms and death to the current virus. As for the heart attack we don't have any other information, but the death of any portion of your heart muscle hardly contributes to better health.

Try and fine a statistic for the average age of those dying in the UK. If you find the number put it in this thread.
I have seen articles giving statistics on the numbers of confirmed cases requiring hospitalisation, requiring intensive care, and of the latter the numbers dying. I have found statistics based on gender and race. I have found all sorts of statistics and analysis. There is an acknowledgement that older people are more likely to die, but that average? The last statistics giving an average age for fatalities which I have found were those published by the Italians weeks ago. Why?

There is a 'project fear' being run to help the authorities maintain lock downs and particularly cajole younger people into compliance. In the UK that is frankly insulting. The vast majority of people here appreciate the severity of the disease and how easily it is transmitted. Failing to publish all information, and publishing idiotic headlines about 'healthy' people, who clearly are not, in the assumption that many won't actually read the entire article, is not helpful and makes people suspicious and cynical of the press.

Zipper730 said:

I would say the Korean data is the best so far, because they have pretty much tested their whole population -- this gives the best statistical figures. This doesn't diminish the harm the virus can cause, but it gives us a better perspective.

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form worldometers data the South Korea did only 623k tests on a population of 50 millions this is relatively less of that did in USA and much less of that did in Span, Germany and Italy for not talking of Faeroe, Iceland, UAE, Falkland

What I find curious is that some countries with less rigorous quarantine measures don't seem to have come off worse than the ones who had. For instance we had a lot of flak from the Belgians for not going into total lock down as they did. But we seemed to have fared better then they did. Our countries are very much interwoven, so situations are comparable otherwise. The fact that we are only in partial lockdown keeps me from going insane.

Marcel said:

What I find curious is that some countries with less rigorous quarantine measures don't seem to have come off worse than the ones who had. For instance we had a lot of flak from the Belgians for not going into total lock down as they did. But we seemed to have fared better then they did. Our countries are very much interwoven, so situations are comparable otherwise. The fact that we are only in partial lockdown keeps me from going insane.

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I don't believe a total lockdown is necessary, if people do the things they should do. Wear masks, stay 6 feet apart, don't go to work when you are sick. Places where people resist this, or cannot comply for various reasons fair worse than those that do.