Dallas Airshow Tragedy

[BlackSheep]

Agree -

This guy does give praise to the NTSB and the FAA in investigating this crash as should be. 2 things I heard in the clip that bothers me.

This guy does state he's a private pilot and then says something to the effect that he flies simulators and makes comments based on that. 50% credibility deduction. He goes on to make a statement about during the parade of fighters its a time when the fighters do rolls or other aerobatic maneuvers. I've participated in airshows and admit that while I don't have a formation card, as far as I know there are strict guidelines on doing low level aerobatics especially when in flight with dissimilar aircraft. Maybe our @jimh can ad to this. Now he is in Australia, so I'll be interested to hear from our friends down under.

But this tells me his airshow experience is from a spectator's view.

Aside from that he put together good clips and the interview with the head of the CAF.

Again, having lost several people very near and dear to me while flying warbirds, my heart goes out to the families...

I agree that too much credit is given to simulator experience, most especially the civilian/home computer-type. When, he included thousands of hours of flight simulator time, mostly with his friend, my red flags went full mast. They're a great training resource, but, nothing beats the real thing (I won't post a joke about "or why would we bother dating women" in regards to how good simulators are)

Sadly and hilariously, I've even seen comments on shooter-type of games where wannabes state how they could be "Navy SEAL/Delta/CAG" based upon their ability to play some game online.

 

[ww2restorer]

As an experienced airshow pilot, it is always frustrating to see the continued BS from people that don't have a clue, in fact I will go out on a limb and say these people wouldn't know one end of an aircraft to another. The video presentation states that he has thousands of hours in simulators, whoopee do!!!!! You can go to any toy store and buy simulators, doesn't make you a pilot. Also, this guy makes statements that are not correct, he wouldn't know what a flight line is, nor know the required separation distances. This guy is nothing but an armchair pilot.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hard to imagine how this can happen until you have tried your first few formation flights when the closing speed is higher than you anticipate.

I'm no pilot, and in all things I appreciate accidents happen. From this ground dweller's POV I have to ask what are the SOPs? In this circumstance I would think if the P-63 pilot cannot see the B-17, his responsibility is to dump speed, take a straight-and-level attitude and then locate the B-17 before closing formation?

 

[BlackSheep]

As an experienced airshow pilot, it is always frustrating to see the continued BS from people that don't have a clue, in fact I will go out on a limb and say these people wouldn't know one end of an aircraft to another. The video presentation states that he has thousands of hours in simulators, whoopee do!!!!! You can go to any toy store and buy simulators, doesn't make you a pilot. Also, this guy makes statements that are not correct, he wouldn't know what a flight line is, nor know the required separation distances. This guy is nothing but an armchair pilot.

As I said, keep an open mind, it is only his opinion….

 

[ww2restorer]

I am curious, though, about the Stearman.

If the formation was lining up to do a pass, who cleared the Stearman?

Shouldn't he have been held back until the flight cleared the boundry?

In relation to the Stearman route, the controller didn't know that it was going to be parallel to the debris field. The debris field could have been anywhere. With the airport so close to Hwy60 maybe under air show requirements this Hwy should be closed. RIP the souls onboard and families.

 

[ww2restorer]

As I said, keep an open mind, it is only his opinion….

No place for an open mind with someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[BlackSheep]

No place for an open mind with someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

You are open to weather you trash someone or simply let it pass without saying the obvious…I'm curious, did you watch the complete video? I did and although I picked up on his somewhat whimsical credentials, hence, the reason for my edit regarding an open-mind, I think it is a fallacy to say he doesn't know what he is talking about. He did attempt to make a plausible explanation as to why happened with what authority he possessed and didn't claim to have solved anything but, instead, said that there are certainly other aspects that need investigating,
If you are going to write off anyone without the credentials you deem appropriate to discuss the topic at hand, then I certainly have no business giving my opinion to matters on this site. It just seems that whenever this happens, several possible resources are too quickly scoffed at based upon what some might term "the good ol' boy network" and the criteria to be a member of…

 

[ww2restorer]

You are open to weather you trash someone or simply let it pass without saying the obvious…

what are you trying to say?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Relax…

 

[ww2restorer]

Relax…

I'm relaxed

 

[Grandson312]

 

[mjfur]

Based on this screenshot from Post #36, B-17 Cockpit Crew may not have survived initial impact.

 

[GrauGeist]

In relation to the Stearman route, the controller didn't know that it was going to be parallel to the debris field. The debris field could have been anywhere. With the airport so close to Hwy60 maybe under air show requirements this Hwy should be closed. RIP the souls onboard and families.

Since I am not familiar with DFW and the NOTAMS regarding the airshow's airspace, I was curious as to the alignment of the show'a flypast in regards to pending traffic.

 

[rob23]

As an experienced airshow pilot, it is always frustrating to see the continued BS from people that don't have a clue, in fact I will go out on a limb and say these people wouldn't know one end of an aircraft to another. The video presentation states that he has thousands of hours in simulators, whoopee do!!!!! You can go to any toy store and buy simulators, doesn't make you a pilot. Also, this guy makes statements that are not correct, he wouldn't know what a flight line is, nor know the required separation distances. This guy is nothing but an armchair pilot.

It is called the Kruger-Dunning effect. People with little to no experience or knowledge of a particular subject tend to overestimate their knowledge and ability and at the same time disregard the opinions of those with actual knowledge and/or experience. In simpler terms, people are too stupid to understand how stupid they are.

Having said that, my sincere condolences to the survivors and sadness in losing irreplaceable people and aircraft.

 

[ww2restorer]

I'm relaxed

Since I am not familiar with DFW and the NOTAMS regarding the airshow's airspace, I was curious as to the alignment of the show'a flypast in regards to pending traffic.

DFW is 20 miles away and different controlled airspace. DfW is controlled from ground level to 11,00 ft, class B airspace (if my memory is still good, I accept correction). Dallas executive is ground level to 3,000ft AGL (agian from memory flying there for many years)

 

[Gnomey]

Terrible to see

 

[Macandy]

High speed manoeuvring on a merging plot - never clever and a 100% avoidable and unneccesary accident.

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots"
Too many warbird crashes these days are very much down to bold pilots proving that adage.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

High speed manoeuvring on a merging plot - never clever and a 100% avoidable and unneccesary accident.

And you say this on what professional perspective? Your own?

 

[tomo pauk]

Condolences to the families impacted by this tragedy.

 

[Macandy]

And you say this on what professional perspective? Your own?

You will have been told that at flight school - "Never turn on a merging plot unless you have eyes on'.

Too many planes in that sky, too close and too much manoeuvring going on. And control telling the P-63 to 'take the lead'? WTF?