With iconic aircraft that are seen by the public as "their" history, the public want "their" history preserved. If a Cessna had hit a Jetstream there wouldnt be calls for all similar aircraft to be grounded. This grew up after the war in the mid sixties in UK. I just remember the 25th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, there were very few Spitfires and Hurricanes flying in private hands, probably more today as at any time since they were retired from service. The public may feel they have some ownership of these planes, but they dont. To me the sight of one of these planes flying, is worth a hundred in a hangar.
Dallas Airshow Tragedy
- Thread starter javlin
- Start date
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Admiral Beez
Major
I belong to the Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group (CVMG) - Home. We follow the ride them, don't hide them thinking. But if I were to ask my mates I think to a man they'd say they're the stewards, rather than the owners of these classic machines, no matter that some paid over a hundred grand for their bikes (Vincent Black Shadows, Brough Superiors, etc.) and several painstakingly restored them from boxes of rusted parts. The public doesn't own my 1960's Triumph twin, but in a way neither do I - I'm just maintaining it for the future. And if I crash it, especially through reckless use, I'm cognizant that I've taken something away from the future. That's the mindset I hope the owners of historic warbirds take.
I have seen Manx Nortons in museums. I have seen a few raced. One time in practice at Brands Hatch I did around three laps with one, an unforgettable experience to see nad hear it up close. We werent racing, but were riding fast, a wet Brands still covered with aluminium and rubber from F1 cars isnt ideal for racing. But you could see how it worked, completely different "tech" to what I was riding. An experience I wont forget, especially my bike vibrating from the noise of the Manx exhaust.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
They do - also I think statistics are in your favor to walk away if you crash your bike.
And again - many warbirds flying around today are only a small percentage of their original build, that needs to be considered as well.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Not sure if anyone else noticed it but in the one video there's a child (or two) asking if that was supposed to happen. THAT bothers me greatly, how dad is going to explain to his youngster that they just saw several people die. The second time the little one asks the question, it sounds like tears are about to start. That will be a big hurtle to overcome if they ever want to attend an airshow again.
I'm all for airshows and also for seeing WWII birds in the air, I have no desire to tell someone what to do with their own property, much less having the government do so.
But for my money warbirds could just roar past straight and level (or with minimum aerobatics) safely spaced apart or in formation (without aerobatics).
Watching the vid
jimh
posted of the Corsair is exactly what I don't need to see. I have no doubt both pilots in that vid were exceptional, but accidents happen, I'm just for removing the environment that raises the odds of an accident.
Then again, I barely had solo'd before I cracked up a Cessna and my skull so I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject.
I'm all for airshows and also for seeing WWII birds in the air, I have no desire to tell someone what to do with their own property, much less having the government do so.
But for my money warbirds could just roar past straight and level (or with minimum aerobatics) safely spaced apart or in formation (without aerobatics).
Watching the vid
jimh
posted of the Corsair is exactly what I don't need to see. I have no doubt both pilots in that vid were exceptional, but accidents happen, I'm just for removing the environment that raises the odds of an accident.Then again, I barely had solo'd before I cracked up a Cessna and my skull so I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject.
Admiral Beez
Major
I agree, it's just great to see the aircraft in flight without any risky aerobatics. Here in Southern Ontario we are blessed to have the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, where nearly everything with a prop flies. Private military jet ownership is not permitted, so their spars are cut. It's just great to see their Avro Lancaster and PBY Canso flying around the CN Tower, just below my house. I don't need to see it maneuvering around other aircraft.
As for formations, here's how I like to see it, as put on by the above museum in 2013. From this ground dweller's POV, the small fighters appear to have good sightlines of the bombers, with no converging flightpaths.
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Not true - I did work for 2 Canadian operators who fly L29s. There's also a Jet Provost flying around Kitchener.
credit K Mist, K Newstead
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
T-33 T-Bird Classic Fighter Jet Rides in Toronto, Canada
Thrilling Fighter Jet Rides in Toronto, Canada: T-33 T-Bird Fighter Jet Flight - Your only chance to fly a real jet warbird in Canada - seats are limited.
www.flyfighterjet.com
Admiral Beez
Major
AIUI jet trainers are allowed. But you can't privately own and operate an ex-RCAF Voodoo or Starfighter, for example. At least that's what they told me at the museum when I asked why these spars were cut. Maybe it's something to do with being supersonic, IDK.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I believe that has to do with the source or origin (US). Although there are some cases were US operators got their hands on ex-USAF fighters, the normal path is to acquire the aircraft through a former MAP operator where the US government no longer has a stake in the acquisition path.
I believe these folks are operating Hawker Hunters in support of the CAF, I don't know if they carry Canadian civilian registration but the company is in Quebec.
Hunter Aircraft - OUR AMAZING HAWKER HUNTERS
www.lortieaviation.com
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Cool!
Crimea_River
Marshal
And VWOC's Mike Potter only just sold his flying F-86 a few years ago.
pinehilljoe
Senior Airman
- 745
- May 1, 2016
Steward is a good way to put it. I owned a 1978 Triumph Spitfire from 2003 to 2013. I found I wasn't riding it much, so sold it. Someone else's turn to own it.
I agree, it's just great to see the aircraft in flight without any risky aerobatics. Here in Southern Ontario we are blessed to have the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, where nearly everything with a prop flies. Private military jet ownership is not permitted, so their spars are cut. It's just great to see their Avro Lancaster and PBY Canso flying around the CN Tower, just below my house. I don't need to see it maneuvering around other aircraft.
As for formations, here's how I like to see it, as put on by the above museum in 2013. From this ground dweller's POV, the small fighters appear to have good sightlines of the bombers, with no converging flightpaths.
The BBMF is slightly different, it is funded by the state as part of the RAF and I think the pilots are serving with the RAF. I went to a wedding of an RAF serviceman and a couple of guys there were hoping to get onto it.
buffnut453
Captain
Yes, the BBMF aircraft are flown by serving RAF pilots.
Here's a breakdown of how the investigation is likely to go, from Air Safety Institute.
https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/online-learning/early-analysis/RBD-AirshowMidair
https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/online-learning/early-analysis/RBD-AirshowMidair
ww2restorer
Airman 1st Class
- 239
- May 28, 2011
One statement the NTSB has not ruled out is a mechanical problem. Could the p-63 have had a throttle problem and the pilot preoccupied with solving the problem (It was flying much faster than the p-51s ahead). Reminds me of Eastern airlines flight 401, the accident a result of the complete crew trying to sort out a blown lamp.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I've never owned a vintage guitar, but those who have often report the same sense of responsibility, and it makes sense to me. I have no doubt these warbird owners feel that same sense; they bought these planes precisely to keep them flying, and thereby keeping them alive.
In a similar vein, again using vintage guitars as examples, there's a schism in the guitar communities as to whether a precious or rare guitar (58 Flying V, or 53 Nocaster, 1939 D-28, etc) should be toured or played out at all, or kept in a glass case on the wall. I fall on the side of "the damn thing was built to be played", and I mostly feel the same way about these warbirds even though I ain't a pilot.
Admiral Beez
Major
One day this planet we're all on or its sun will explode. Nothing is for ever. So, play that guitar, ride that bike and fly that plane. Just be mindful that it's a cultural icon that the next generation may value.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Well-put. Use it as intended, but do not abuse it. I'm sure these warbird owners and fliers are of the same mindset. It's part of passing it along.
