Did M4 Carbine Fail U.S. Troops During Afghanistan Assault?

[Milosh]

The platoon-sized unit of U.S. soldiers and about two dozen Afghan troops was shooting back with such intensity the barrels on their weapons turned white hot. The high rate of fire appears to have put a number of weapons out of commission, even though the guns are tested and built to operate in extreme conditions.

Sounds like overheating more than dirt that caused the weapons to stop working.

 

[Amsel]

LWRC has fixed the main issue with the M-4 with its new self-regulating short-stroke gas-piston system. Well besides the weak penetration and stopping power of the 5.56 itself, LWRC has made the M-4 a much better piece. I really like the m-10 version though, utilizing the .308.

I wonder why the government doesn't look into using an improved gas-piston system.

 

[Clay_Allison]

LWRC has fixed the main issue with the M-4 with its new self-regulating short-stroke gas-piston system. Well besides the weak penetration and stopping power of the 5.56 itself, LWRC has made the M-4 a much better piece. I really like the m-10 version though, utilizing the .308.

I wonder why the government doesn't look into using an improved gas-piston system.

Trying to do anything different or replace anything puts you into a world of hurt with all of the layers of bureaucratic oversight that have been added since the original contract has been signed. Why did the F-16 cost 15 million and the F-35 cost 83 mil? ISO 9000 and layers of corrupt bureaucracy.

 

[renrich]

Aside from the stopping power of the round, wouldn't the problem of jamming with the M4 and the M16 compared to the AK be because the manufacturing tolerances of the AK are substantially more loose than the AR designs. The US weapons may be more accurate than the AK, but in a close quarters fire fight with lots of firing who needs good accuracy? I am just speculating for I am an M1 Garand guy.

 

[Clay_Allison]

We have an inferior weapon that no one cares about because there isn't enough lobby to replace it. Colt's connections outweigh the arguments against the poor stopping power of the 5.56 from a short barrel and the unreliability of the shortened version of the M16 gas system.

 

[Theo]

I recently read the same thing about the British SA80 rifle.

MoD under pressure to abandon SA-80 rifle

 

[tomo pauk]

Cpl. Jason Bogar fired approximately 600 rounds from his M-249 before the weapon overheated and jammed the weapon.

So the Minimi fired 600 rds before jamming. I'd say that's a huge amount for an air-cooled weapon.

 

[Clay_Allison]

So the Minimi fired 600 rds before jamming. I'd say that's a huge amount for an air-cooled weapon.

The M249 is actually a good gun.

 

[lesofprimus]

Gotta agree Clay, never had probs with em, but we mostly used the M60 anyways...

 

[Soren]

They could go for the G-36, that would solve the problems with jamming whilst even having tighter tolerances. The recycling mechanism in the G-36 is a work of art and it is a real shame that the cooperation between H&K and the US army with the XM8 rifle (The G-36 just with a facelift) didn't win over the US politicians.

But even then I gotta say that the 5.56mm just doesn't cut it anymore, the western alliance needs a new std. assault rifle calibre, and they need it now! The new 6.8mm round is a great alternative IMO, it has great penetration power and energy retention, making it a lot more suitable for places like Aghanistan and Iraq. Either that or they go the cheap route and make the 7.62 the std. round once again and give the soldiers a weapon like the G3.

Even better here's a great new weapon which I think fits the bill very well when it comes to what our soldiers need atm (The part from 5:00 onwards is esp. interesting!):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJhPMIVgF6c

 

[Soren]

That you can have it fire 7.62x39mm rounds in like 2min by a simple changing of a few parts can prove EXTREMELY useful in many combat situations I promise you that!

 

[Colin1]

...they go the cheap route and make the 7.62 the std round once again...

Nothing wrong with 7.62mm if you want something to go down and stay down
You think of most firefight situations where the enemy might use the natural cover of trees, walls, vehicles etc to hide behind; 7.62mm ball ammunition would penetrate most of these. There was nowhere to hide when that stuff started flying.
The SLR wasn't perfect but as the SA-80 was just coming into service, I breathed a sigh of relief that I was just going out

 

[Soren]

Nothing wrong with 7.62mm if you want something to go down and stay down
You think of most firefight situations where the enemy might use the natural cover of trees, walls, vehicles etc to hide behind; 7.62mm ball ammunition would penetrate most of these. There was nowhere to hide when that stuff started flying.
The SLR wasn't perfect but as the SA-80 was just coming into service, I breathed a sigh of relief that I was just going out

Exactly Colin1, I also always prefered the 7.62 over the 5.56, and I truly believe that the G3 is FAR better suited for the role in Afghanistan than the M4 or M16, or any other 5.56mm design down there.

But the best would obviously be to have something in between the 7.62 NATO and the 5.56 NATO in power, something like the new 6.8mm round.

 

[lesofprimus]

Promote the 6.8mm all we can fellas......

We need it...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I really think the US should consider the G36 again. I was really impressed with it every time I had a chance to play around with it. It was one of the weapons I shot when I qualified for the German Schützenschnur.

Then again though, if they were to consider it, we would be back to the original discussion of the 5.56 which I think we all agree is not enough.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The G3 is my all time favorite battle rifle, just as good as the M-14, better than the FAL, at 1/3 the price of either.

 

[Soren]

G36 or XM8chambered in 6.8mm, that would be a dream come true for every soldier down there right now.

 

[Clay_Allison]

We'll be stuck with the M4 or at best the M16 forever, the 5.56 too. This military is only interested in spending money on expensive toys, not the basics.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I've never fired the 6.8mm but have fired (and loved) the .270. Is that pretty much the same round?

 

[Clay_Allison]

I've never fired the 6.8mm but have fired (and loved) the .270. Is that pretty much the same round?

No, it falls short of .270 performance. Smaller bullet, less speed. The .270 is based on the 30-06, the 6.8 is based on the a rimless 30-30 (the 30 Remington). The 6.8 has far less powder capacity to work with.