Pisis
2nd Lieutenant
Another information I could get about any other countries being involved is that Ukraine had blocked Russian ships to come to their territorial waters "until the complete cease-fire".
Source: Interfax
Source: Interfax
Georgia and Russia at war.
- Thread starter rochie
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- Thread starter
- #102
sky and bbc news are very anti russian in the way they are reporting events in georgia.
giving the impression that big bad russia is attacking poor little georgia, seems to me georgia was fighting ossetian militia a couple of days before the russians stepped in
giving the impression that big bad russia is attacking poor little georgia, seems to me georgia was fighting ossetian militia a couple of days before the russians stepped in
evangilder
"Shooter"
Agreed, Rochie. The NY Times is doing something similar. Unless I am completely missing something here, it seems to me that the Russians were reacting to their citizens being attacked.
- Thread starter
- #104
on the other hand i've heard the russians were handing out russian passports like confetti thus giving them reason to react, but if south ossetia wants to be russian what can you do !
is that region vital for georgia or could they let it go without feeling any pain ?
is that region vital for georgia or could they let it go without feeling any pain ?
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
thats where the "kosovo factor" is present. georgia made a very risky play triyng to crush the ossetian forces and bring back south ossetia for georgia dominion. the georgians didnt expected that russia would react so strongly and so quickly cross the border with their tanks and bombers.
since georgia is an allie of usa in iraq, an allie of ukraine in the region and an allie of european union, they would think that also could intimidade russia and support georgia.
but russia quickly responds te georgian attack sending your 56th army to cross the border, and bombs important georgian military instalations. the russians defends the right of south ossetians to be independent or part of russia just like what happends in kosovo.
its a strong argument because that time nato ran to help kosovo, after many tention been generated and some massacres. and russia noticied that at least 2.000 people have been killed in s. ossetia, russia claims also a humanitarian issue.
also, the georgia, besides been allie of usa in iraq, is not considered a close allie by american government wich makes difficult any kind of military help by usa since conflict started, or any more harder position of washington over that conflict. usa will act togheter with their partners of un security council. and russia in inside the council.
the georgia claims they abandoned the positions on south ossetia capital and ask for a cease-fire. russians wants they drive out completely from s. ossetia as a condition for a cease-fire.
one of the national sports of russians is the chess, and i believe puttin is real good chess player, he throws all the pressure over georgian shoulders and take the positions over s. ossetia waiting for the next move. georgia and their president are almost checked !
Matt308
Glock Perfection
It gets back to oil. Sustained conflict in the Caucacus region could directly affect Russian oil profits. The regions pipelines carry oil from the Caspian Sea to world markets. Disruption of the oil flow through this region is a Russian strategic issue.
In addition to that, the flood of refugees were headed into Russia, were they not?
In addition to that, the flood of refugees were headed into Russia, were they not?
That is where it is gets real interesting though, because technically the land belonged to Georgia, not Russia. As Rochie said as well, if the news are correct Russia was just giving passports away like candy to the people in the province as well. So in that case Russia was interfering with Georgian sovereignty to begin with.
I don't know what to think though. I am not going to pass judgement until the full facts are known.
The conflict is hundreds years old. And first of all it's an ethnic conflict when it began centuries ago people didnt even know what oil is.
In recent history, those ethnic cleansings of early 90th had nothing to do with the oil either. There was no pipeline through georgian territory and oil cost 10 bucks per barrel at the time.
Now, since the pipeline has been built (if you're referring to the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline) I dont know how that pipeline might affect Russia's oil producers, there are two dozens of them, mostly privately owned companies including BP. And Google search doesnt even show Azerbaidzhan among top oil producers of the World. I'm not an expert in oil import/export but if you know more please enlighten us on how this little pipeline can affect world's oil prices.
Anyways, in my opinion, building a pipeline through disputed territories, through zones of numerous ethnic conflicts and rebel movements, through countries with autocratic regimes like Azerbaidzhan and Georgia was a mistake at first place and might cause more human lives in future.
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
since 1991 theres conflicts between south ossetians and georgia central government. seems like south ossetians dont wanna be part os georgia. the ethiny of s. ossetians, their language and culture also are diferent of georgia. they are ore near to north ossetia wich stays inside russia. thats the reason of too many russian passports.
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
stasoid, does the conflict have any relation with past failed stalinist ethnical policies ?
Matt308
Glock Perfection
I'm not inferring that the Russians are taking action against Georgia for the sake of the world. Far from it. Rather, I suggest that Russia is protecting their own interests and seeking to bolster their own economy.
On that we agree. And that is really my point about Russia's involvement. Don't think for minute that I am foolish enough to believe this a 1-dimensional issue. But oil and Russia economic/strategic interests rank at the very top. This was a planned operation whose military buildup had been occurring over a significant period of time. This is NOT a reactionary peace keeping force assembled by Russia in wee hours of the morning.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Oh, and stasiod/Ramirezzz, I would expect no less from the US in protecting their interests too. That was not meant as a condemnation of Russian actions.
JugBR, All ethnic conflicts were neutralized by the soviet regime, you know.
But, here is what wiki says:
History
Medieval and early modern period
The Ossetians are originally descendants of the Alans, a Sarmatian tribe. They became Christians during the early Middle Ages, under Georgian and Byzantine influences. Under Mongol rule, they were pushed out of their medieval homeland south of the Don river in present-day Russia and part migrated towards and over the Caucasus mountains, to Georgia[14] where they formed three distinct territorial entities. Digor in the west came under the influence of the neighboring Kabard people, who introduced Islam. Tualläg in the south became what is now South Ossetia, part of the historical Georgian principality of Samachablo[15] where Ossetians found refuge from Mongol invaders. Iron in the north became what is now North Ossetia, under Russian rule from 1767. Most Ossetians are now Christian (approximately 61%); there is also a significant Muslim minority.
South Ossetia under Russia and the Soviet Union
The modern-day South Ossetia was annexed by Russia in 1801, along with Georgia proper, and absorbed into the Russian Empire. Following the Russian Revolution, South Ossetia became a part of the Menshevik Georgian Democratic Republic, while the north became a part of the Terek Soviet Republic. The area saw a series of Ossetian rebellions during which claims for independence were made. The Georgian government accused Ossetians of cooperating with Bolsheviks. According to Ossetian sources about 5,000 Ossetians were killed and more than 13,000 subsequently died from hunger and epidemics.[16]
The Soviet Georgian government established by the Russian 11th Red Army in 1921 created the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast (i.e., district) in April 1922. Although the Ossetians had their own language (Ossetian), Russian and Georgian were administrative/state languages.[17] Under the rule of Georgia's government during Soviet times, it enjoyed some degree of autonomy including speaking the Ossetian language and teaching it in schools.[17]
South Ossetia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But, here is what wiki says:
History
Medieval and early modern period
The Ossetians are originally descendants of the Alans, a Sarmatian tribe. They became Christians during the early Middle Ages, under Georgian and Byzantine influences. Under Mongol rule, they were pushed out of their medieval homeland south of the Don river in present-day Russia and part migrated towards and over the Caucasus mountains, to Georgia[14] where they formed three distinct territorial entities. Digor in the west came under the influence of the neighboring Kabard people, who introduced Islam. Tualläg in the south became what is now South Ossetia, part of the historical Georgian principality of Samachablo[15] where Ossetians found refuge from Mongol invaders. Iron in the north became what is now North Ossetia, under Russian rule from 1767. Most Ossetians are now Christian (approximately 61%); there is also a significant Muslim minority.
South Ossetia under Russia and the Soviet Union
The modern-day South Ossetia was annexed by Russia in 1801, along with Georgia proper, and absorbed into the Russian Empire. Following the Russian Revolution, South Ossetia became a part of the Menshevik Georgian Democratic Republic, while the north became a part of the Terek Soviet Republic. The area saw a series of Ossetian rebellions during which claims for independence were made. The Georgian government accused Ossetians of cooperating with Bolsheviks. According to Ossetian sources about 5,000 Ossetians were killed and more than 13,000 subsequently died from hunger and epidemics.[16]
The Soviet Georgian government established by the Russian 11th Red Army in 1921 created the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast (i.e., district) in April 1922. Although the Ossetians had their own language (Ossetian), Russian and Georgian were administrative/state languages.[17] Under the rule of Georgia's government during Soviet times, it enjoyed some degree of autonomy including speaking the Ossetian language and teaching it in schools.[17]
South Ossetia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes but Russia has no right to issue passports to citizens of another country (If that is what is happening. It is still rather unclear to me).
Matt308
Glock Perfection
"The fog of war"
Milos Sijacki
Senior Airman
I apologize for starting my own thread about this, I didn't know that there was a thread on this subject.
Exactly.
No need to apologize.
Milos Sijacki
Senior Airman
I think that this is all about that hideous looking sticky fluid we call oil.
The oil must flow, but not to everyone.
Today I heard that Russians have pushed the Georgians completely out of combat zone and that the fighting is spreading to Abkhazia.
I also read that some people blame USA for this and, indirectly, the Republic of Kosovo. That is what I read when I googled this up.
The oil must flow, but not to everyone.
Today I heard that Russians have pushed the Georgians completely out of combat zone and that the fighting is spreading to Abkhazia.
I also read that some people blame USA for this and, indirectly, the Republic of Kosovo. That is what I read when I googled this up.
As far as I know it is ligitemate to have dual citizenship in such countries as Russia, Canada, US.
If you (or me) ever decide to seek a refugee status in Russia you'll get it and you'll get a russian passport eventually as well if you apply.
As I understand those Ossetians spent years in refuge in Russia and granting them with russian citizenship is not something abnormal.
