IV Jg 301 Bf 109 G-10's

Discussion in 'Questions on Kits, Decals, Tools and Pilots' started by rochie, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    ok i have 2 Bf 109 G-10 kits i'd like to turn into Jg 301 subjects and i could do with some help.

    i am really struggling to get correct colour and style numerals for the each subject and am hoping someone on here can help me out with decals for either, a few of you guys do print your own so does anybody want to give it a go ?

    first we have Green 2,first profile is from the Mushroom Bf109 G late Book which is more accurate regarding the lower wing colour ?

    green 2.jpg

    JG_301_gr_2.jpg

    now we have white 44
    pictures are of a model built by Anthony Manzoli and posted here on the ARC website
    1/48 Hasegawa BF-109G-10 by Anthony Manzoli

    white 44.jpg

    white44a.jpg

    next question, colours RLM75/83 and pattern of the camoflage scheme, would the below pattern and colours be correct for a G-10 ?

    G-10 pattern.jpg

    any help and input would be greatly appreciated

    Karl
     
  2. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to add

    if anyone has any other G-10 subjects from IV Jg301 with the yellow/red RV band please post them as i could easily change the build
     
  3. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    #3 Erich, Nov 7, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
    I have personal pics for my book but go with Herberts version of Grüne 2, no outline. actually the number maybe blue not green as he has depicted and the two of us have chatted about this though he seems to feel it is green......for Stab, am not sure. trhere is photos of the 2 machine as well as Weiße 44. member Bobbysocks has a video of cine film from his Fathers shooting down of a JG 301 G-10 coded yellow ? in 1945 - 15th staffel.

    the last op for the IVth gruppe was on 2 March 1945 when the gruppe ws nearly destroyed mostly over it's A/F by the US 78th fg which caught the G-10's mostly on take-off from their airfield at Burg. With that the reamining G-10's were scattered over a very wide area to rot away.,

    do you have Willi Rescheks book on JG 301/Jg 302 ? if not let me suggest in obtaining a copy at least you will have mentioned loss records of numbered machines and werke nummers in most cases that would help you pick a crate to build if the above two numbered A/C does not work out for you.....

    just so you are aware the very first op of IVth gruppe was against Soviet forces and the IV. gruppes Kommandeur was shot down and killed in his g-10 his A/C marked with a green -stab number.
     
  4. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Think you might struggle for decals Karl. The only ones I know of are from Peddinghaus, in Germany. A company I contacted a year or two back, were going to release some - I saw their first lot, of unit badges, then they disappeared !
     
  5. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    alright after a bit of reading.

    Formed 24.11.44 at Gardelegen from II./JG7 with:

    Stab IV./JG301 from Stab II./JG7
    13./JG301 from 5./JG7
    14./JG301 from 6./JG7
    15./JG301 from 7./JG7

    Disbanded 19.3.45.

    i also have seen profiles of white 44 as a Jg7 bird with a red/blue RV band, so when the Jg7 units became IV Jg 301 would they have re painted RV bands and numbers, just the bands, re painted nothing or even a mixture of everything mentioned ????

    i've also been through the Kagero Jg 301 book and 2 G-10's are mentioned, red 5 W.Nr 157440 and green21 W.Nr 491157
    any info on these 2 airframes ?
     
  6. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    #6 Erich, Nov 7, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
    forget Kageros book please............... JG 7 had nothing to do with JG 301 and JG 7 never had ANY 109's for defense staffel.

    green 21 was shot down this was the Kommandeurs A/C in February of 45 shot down by Soviet AA.

    13 is white
    14 is red
    15 is yellow numerals

    no 16th staffel formed. the idea was that this IVth gruppe was to provide high cover for JG 301 which though intended never materialized the unit was made up of former bomber pilots and they of course had no real fighter versus fighter training and were shot down till the gruppe was destroyed and disbanded the rest served as ground infantry..........

    the G-10's had a blue horizontal gruppe bar not green.
     
  7. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    posts crossed there Erich/Terry

    Erich i've been trying to info on White 44 do you believe it was a Jg 301 machine not Jg 7 ?

    Terry, i'm thinking of sacrificing some different coloured decal numerals as paint masks, i've tried to make masks today with little joy.
    have you ever painted a base colour then put a carefully cut decal over that, re painted then removed the decal revealing the proper coloured numeral painted on ????
     
  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    read my above posting JG 7 never had any Fw's or 109's............. II./JG 7 never existed except on paper and as a propaganda machine which served the jet unit very well I might add....Allied intel was fooled. by the way bobbysock's Dad who served in the US 357th fg shot down yellow 7 G-10.
     
  9. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    sorry Erich posts crossed again !

    Yellow 7 eh, i might have decals for that ?
    am i correct in guessing that most of Jg 301 G-10's would of carried a very similar basic paint scheme ?
     
  10. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    to your question........yes very similar paint scheme.
     
  11. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Great many thanks for your time Sir
     
  12. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a great project Karl, sorry I'm not able to help detailwise. (Thank God for Erich and Terry! :) )

    Will check my decals for anything you could use. Got some in 1:48 (and a Revell 1:48 Bf 109G-10 on the 'to do' pile)
     
  13. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Agree twice! :thumbright:
     
  14. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Been looking around at decals mate - Hannant's have a sheet of 'standard' Luftwaffe numbers, but not the late war style and colours. Seems only Peddinghaus have them and then in limited styles/colours.
    I've created some numbers and letters by reverse masking, but these have all been 'angular' - 4,7,E.H etc. I did once try using decals over the colour to reverse mask, but it wasn't very successful (need to do similar for a He111 and Bf110, so still thinking about it.)
    I can probably make coloured number decals close to the shade needed, but density isn't very good on clear decal sheet, and of course white is a 'no go'. It can sometimes work to lay two decals, one on top of the other, or make the decal and then paint over that, but both methods are very hit an miss.
     
  15. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    remember the numerals are NOT outlined.....
     
  16. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Karl. No commercial green/blue 2s or yellow 7s or white 44s in my files but I don't mind having a go at printing you a set once you land on the scheme you want to do. I can't do the white numbers though. If possible, a good profile of the numbers you want would be needed so I can edit and scale in Photoshop.
     
  17. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    #17 Wayne Little, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    Is there any Blue Erich or is that still being determined?

    Always thought the G-10 at Erfurt, that the number 1 looked more like the blue bar than the Red band as it has been cited as Red or Blue 1.
     
  18. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    No luck my end either Karl sorry. :(
     
  19. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Cheers guys

    Andy I'll be in touch about the numbers when i have my next day off.
     
  20. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Wayne

    originally there was suppose to be a 16th staffel with blue numerals but it never materialized so in a word.............NO. the horizontal bar is blue for IVth gruppe. green numerals like # 2 for Stab as well as green 21, etc...... I know EE in there dora 9 book volume 1 mentions a 16th staffel with a colour representation but again there was no official 16th staffel and no loss listings of A/C from that staffel.
     
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