Sunken Australian hospital ship Centaur: first images
- Thread starter Colin1
- Start date
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B-17engineer
Colonel
That "Work-Save-Fight" poster looks a lot like pictures depicting the titanic cinking 
Anyways nice article.
Anyways nice article.
RabidAlien
1st Lieutenant
How can you demand an apology for something 60 years after the fact, from a government run by individuals who were either still in diapers or not even born at the time? I understand the underlying feelings behind the demand, but realistically...its like trying to arrest a guy because his grandfather stole a horse. Makes no sense.
Wildcat
Major
Agreed, however the Japanese Govt saying the "details surrounding the sinking were inconclusive" is pretty p*ss poor in my books. Obviously they haven't heard of the I-177
Heinz
Captain
Its great its been located and I agree with Andy its very ordinary.
On the other hand what I dont get is long detached relatives many times removed who cling onto the association of the brave souls who went down on her. Many seem to attach or try to bask in their glory.
By all means respect, remember and honour the fallen or those who have served, its just the clear attention seeking behaviours I've seen go on.
Particularly with Fromelles, the Sydney and now this discovery.
To the fallen RIP
On the other hand what I dont get is long detached relatives many times removed who cling onto the association of the brave souls who went down on her. Many seem to attach or try to bask in their glory.
By all means respect, remember and honour the fallen or those who have served, its just the clear attention seeking behaviours I've seen go on.
Particularly with Fromelles, the Sydney and now this discovery.
To the fallen RIP
RabidAlien
1st Lieutenant
Totally agreed, Heinz. Those that try to use the sacrifices of others to make themselves look more....important/patriotic?....it grates on my nerves. Frikkin leeches.
Wildcat
Major
Yup..
I'd like to think that the sub spotted only a silhouette through the scope, launched a couple fish and got out of there.
Even if they had the they motivation to intentionally sink a hospital ship they'd think twice..
Unlness those were their last torpedoes, id think they'd save them for better targets. Every torpedo launched is a big risk. why risk the entire cruise on a hospital ship?
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Even if they had the they motivation to intentionally sink a hospital ship they'd think twice..
Unlness those were their last torpedoes, id think they'd save them for better targets. Every torpedo launched is a big risk. why risk the entire cruise on a hospital ship?
.
beaupower32
Tech Sergeant
Thats what I am thinking. I just dont see them waisting a few "fish" to sink a Hospital ship when more valuable targets are around. It could have been bad weather and they couldnt make out nothing more than a silouette of the ship, and not see the markings. Could have been a dark night with no moon. This is something we just might never know.
They might have identified the target as a merchant ship or an oil tanker.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww3zgeIT6Wo
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww3zgeIT6Wo
Attachments
Onboard were 332 persons that comprised of;
■75 Merchant Navy crew
■12 nurses of the Australian Army Nursing Service most of whom were transferred from the hospital ship Oranje.
■50 other medical staff, including 19 doctors. There were 8 Officers with some of the staff coming from the 113th Australian Army General Hospital (RGH Concord)
■1 Red Cross representative - W.F.D Clark
■1 ship's pilot ⇒ 67 year old Capt. R. M. Salt, a Torres Strait pilot, of Sydney
■149 men of the 2/12th Field Ambulance
■44 attached personnel heading for a tour in Papua New Guinea.
■0 patients
Owner: Alfred Holt Ocean Steamship Company (The Blue Funnel Line), Liverpool Builder: Scotts Shipbuilding and Engineering Co., Greenock
Beam: 48.2 ft. (14.7 metres) Gross tonnage: 3,222
Depth: 21,5 ft. (6.6 metres) Net tonnage: 1901
Engine: 4-stroke, 6-cylinder, oil-fired, blast-injected Burmeister Wain Decks: 2 tween decks and upper 'shade' deck
Holds/Hatches: 4 Grain space: 240,000 cu ft (6,800 cu metres)
Bale space: 220,000 cu ft (6,200 cu metres) Livestock capacity: 72
Passenger capacity: 72 Official number: 147275
Year Built: 1924 Length: 315.7 ft.(96 metres)
Owen Gun Project, Did it Sink with the Centaur? Part 6 | Owen Guns, Gympie, Australia.
■75 Merchant Navy crew
■12 nurses of the Australian Army Nursing Service most of whom were transferred from the hospital ship Oranje.
■50 other medical staff, including 19 doctors. There were 8 Officers with some of the staff coming from the 113th Australian Army General Hospital (RGH Concord)
■1 Red Cross representative - W.F.D Clark
■1 ship's pilot ⇒ 67 year old Capt. R. M. Salt, a Torres Strait pilot, of Sydney
■149 men of the 2/12th Field Ambulance
■44 attached personnel heading for a tour in Papua New Guinea.
■0 patients
Owner: Alfred Holt Ocean Steamship Company (The Blue Funnel Line), Liverpool Builder: Scotts Shipbuilding and Engineering Co., Greenock
Beam: 48.2 ft. (14.7 metres) Gross tonnage: 3,222
Depth: 21,5 ft. (6.6 metres) Net tonnage: 1901
Engine: 4-stroke, 6-cylinder, oil-fired, blast-injected Burmeister Wain Decks: 2 tween decks and upper 'shade' deck
Holds/Hatches: 4 Grain space: 240,000 cu ft (6,800 cu metres)
Bale space: 220,000 cu ft (6,200 cu metres) Livestock capacity: 72
Passenger capacity: 72 Official number: 147275
Year Built: 1924 Length: 315.7 ft.(96 metres)
Owen Gun Project, Did it Sink with the Centaur? Part 6 | Owen Guns, Gympie, Australia.
Wildcat
Major
The ship was fully lit up guys...
Are we sure that wasn't propaganda? are hospital ships usually lit up?
There is actually a good write - up in wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Centaur
.
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Wildcat
Major
Well going from that wiki article -
and
Seems clear that the ship was lit up, whats not clear is the motivation/decision behind the Japanese skipper's actions. Something unfortunately that will never be known.
Hospital ships are required to be lit up by Geneva Convention. Evidently, this one was.
While it was a gruesome act, it was in line with the way the war was fought in the Pacific. It was savage. Much like the Soviet/Nazi war. This is not to excuse the actions of the Japanese Sub Commander, but in a war with no holds barred (Naking, Manila, Burma Railroad, Kamikaze, Firebombings, ect), sinking of a Hospital Ship is par for the course.
As a side note, it is my understanding that the Sub Captian was later tried and convicted for murdering survivors of a sunken ship. Evidently, they tried to get him for the Centaur but for some reason the other charges were the ones that stuck and they convicted him for that. Claimed he was operating under orders. Spent 4 years in prison. Was released in 1953.
While it was a gruesome act, it was in line with the way the war was fought in the Pacific. It was savage. Much like the Soviet/Nazi war. This is not to excuse the actions of the Japanese Sub Commander, but in a war with no holds barred (Naking, Manila, Burma Railroad, Kamikaze, Firebombings, ect), sinking of a Hospital Ship is par for the course.
As a side note, it is my understanding that the Sub Captian was later tried and convicted for murdering survivors of a sunken ship. Evidently, they tried to get him for the Centaur but for some reason the other charges were the ones that stuck and they convicted him for that. Claimed he was operating under orders. Spent 4 years in prison. Was released in 1953.
RabidAlien
1st Lieutenant
If I recall correctly, Japan never signed the Geneva Conventions. Which really threw the Allies for a loop at first, they were conducting themselves in accordance with the Convention, whereas the Japanese were not. When the Allies realized that, the war in the Pacific really turned vicious.
You have given me a great hint for further research, RabidAlien.
According to my latest research here in Japan,
Japan signed the first treaty and the second treaty (regarding the armed forces at land and
at sea) of Geneva Convention in 1886, 1908 for the amendment and 1922 respectively but not
the third one regarding the protection of POW.
Also,
A local newspaper Sankei here says the sunken ship was doubted carrying ammunitions for
Guadalcanal but I guess this could have been a rumour as no evidence/data source is shown.
According to my latest research here in Japan,
Japan signed the first treaty and the second treaty (regarding the armed forces at land and
at sea) of Geneva Convention in 1886, 1908 for the amendment and 1922 respectively but not
the third one regarding the protection of POW.
Also,
A local newspaper Sankei here says the sunken ship was doubted carrying ammunitions for
Guadalcanal but I guess this could have been a rumour as no evidence/data source is shown.
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
Sounds quite simular to the Japanese Hospital ship, S.S. Awa Maru, that was sunk off Formosa on April 1, 1945 by the
U.S. Submarine, USS Queenfish [SS-393]. The Awa Maru went down quickly, and there was only one survivor, a
Japanese steward. He was all the U.S. Needed to Courts Martial the skipper of the Queenfish for sinking a properly
marked hospital ship. Rumors aboud that she was carrying quite a bit of contraband...... rubber, gold, silver, ammo, etc.
More info here: Awa Maru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Charles
U.S. Submarine, USS Queenfish [SS-393]. The Awa Maru went down quickly, and there was only one survivor, a
Japanese steward. He was all the U.S. Needed to Courts Martial the skipper of the Queenfish for sinking a properly
marked hospital ship. Rumors aboud that she was carrying quite a bit of contraband...... rubber, gold, silver, ammo, etc.
More info here: Awa Maru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Charles
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
He has demanded an apology from the Japanese government
Ok, that's a tad on the absurd side.
Ok, that's a tad on the absurd side.
