the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
very good point, mind you, so did the P-39................
Tank Busting Armaments... Whats The Best Setup???
- Thread starter lesofprimus
- Start date
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CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
The arrangement for the 75mm gun in Hs-129B-3 "waffentrager" ( gun-carrier) showing the 12 shot magazine
The long and slim case was the same of the PAK 40. Was able to penetrate 116 mm of good steel a 500m in a 30 degres angle.
I read in many places that the 30mm Mk-103 round ( 30x184B) was inefective against any allied medium tank, but I ´m not very sure about it.
Acording to the "Handbüch fur Flugzebau bordwaffenmunition" year 1977 this round, the Harthkermunition , meaning hard core round, but mostly now as the Panzergranate 40 could pierce a 90 mm plate in a 30 degrees angle a 150 metres, wich is enough to defeat a T-34-76 or the earlys Shermans.
The long and slim case was the same of the PAK 40. Was able to penetrate 116 mm of good steel a 500m in a 30 degres angle.
I read in many places that the 30mm Mk-103 round ( 30x184B) was inefective against any allied medium tank, but I ´m not very sure about it.
Acording to the "Handbüch fur Flugzebau bordwaffenmunition" year 1977 this round, the Harthkermunition , meaning hard core round, but mostly now as the Panzergranate 40 could pierce a 90 mm plate in a 30 degrees angle a 150 metres, wich is enough to defeat a T-34-76 or the earlys Shermans.
Erich
the old Sage
suggest a copy of the OOP title Hs 129 by Martin Pegg. The Mk 103 round was indeed sufficient to take out any Soviet tank.
tottles for now
tottles for now
- Thread starter
- #144
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Unfortunatly (or fortunatly), not very many aircraft could carry the Mk103 on the wing......
The only one i know off the top of my head was the Fw 190A8/R3 and the Fw 190F3/R3, both of which carried them in under-wing gondolas....
The only one i know off the top of my head was the Fw 190A8/R3 and the Fw 190F3/R3, both of which carried them in under-wing gondolas....
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
nice shots of the 75mm............
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Two of posible configurations on the Uhu for ground attack.
Four Mg-17 with 1000 rounds of ammo each, complemented by 4 underwing SC-50 in the antipersonel role, or a ventral pack with the Mk-101 gun provided with 30 shot drum magazine.
Four Mg-17 with 1000 rounds of ammo each, complemented by 4 underwing SC-50 in the antipersonel role, or a ventral pack with the Mk-101 gun provided with 30 shot drum magazine.
Erich
the old Sage
Les the Mk 103 was never operational with Fw 190 ground attack units. tests were made but unsuitable. the Two 2cm were kept using AP and different forms of Panzerblitz rockets were used
E
E
cheddar cheese
Major General
the lancaster kicks ass said:
Was the Airacobra used for ground attack then?
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
One of the more persistent myths of World War Two aviation concerns the Russian use of the P-39 Airacobra as a "tank buster," a myth perpetuated until recently . Thanks to James Gebhardt, translator of Attack of the Airacobras: Soviet Aces, American P-39s, and the Air War Against Germany, the actual use of the Bell P-39 by the Soviets can be summarized here.
In short, the Russian pilots flew the Airacobra as "air superiority fighters," and at the low to medium altitudes of air combat on the Eastern Front, they did so with considerable success, against German Fw 190s and Bf 109s. The 216th Fighter Division (later 9th Guards Fighter Division) flew Airacobras from August, 1942 to the end of the war in May, 1945 and counted 28 aces with at least 15 victories.
Anyway the 37mm main gun of the Airacobra was not very efective against armour, his original objetive was to deliver large calibre high explosive shells tracer to ensure the destruction of a formation of bombers that could threat U.S mainland.
Even shooting armour-piercing round the performance was insuficient to penetrate anything more armoured that a Pz I, Pz II ,Sdkfz 251 etc.
Aprox. 20mm of steel plate at 400 metres. Remember that it have a relative short case ( 37x145 rimmed) wich gives a initial speed of 600 m/s.
With no doubt the best gun setup of the entire family of Bell fighters was carried by the P-63D. A elegant bubble-canopy supercharged fighter.
It replaced the old M4 with the M9 wich shot the 37x223SR long bottlenecked case wich improved enormously the penetration on armour.
It was the same cartrigde of the 37mm infantry antitank gun.
Unfortunatly this aircraft not entered in production, his 4x ,50 Browning + 1x37 mm give him a masive firepower that the russians would used with devastating effect againts the new generation of german tanks.
In short, the Russian pilots flew the Airacobra as "air superiority fighters," and at the low to medium altitudes of air combat on the Eastern Front, they did so with considerable success, against German Fw 190s and Bf 109s. The 216th Fighter Division (later 9th Guards Fighter Division) flew Airacobras from August, 1942 to the end of the war in May, 1945 and counted 28 aces with at least 15 victories.
Anyway the 37mm main gun of the Airacobra was not very efective against armour, his original objetive was to deliver large calibre high explosive shells tracer to ensure the destruction of a formation of bombers that could threat U.S mainland.
Even shooting armour-piercing round the performance was insuficient to penetrate anything more armoured that a Pz I, Pz II ,Sdkfz 251 etc.
Aprox. 20mm of steel plate at 400 metres. Remember that it have a relative short case ( 37x145 rimmed) wich gives a initial speed of 600 m/s.
With no doubt the best gun setup of the entire family of Bell fighters was carried by the P-63D. A elegant bubble-canopy supercharged fighter.
It replaced the old M4 with the M9 wich shot the 37x223SR long bottlenecked case wich improved enormously the penetration on armour.
It was the same cartrigde of the 37mm infantry antitank gun.
Unfortunatly this aircraft not entered in production, his 4x ,50 Browning + 1x37 mm give him a masive firepower that the russians would used with devastating effect againts the new generation of german tanks.
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
A picture of the fine Bell P-63D.
"One of a kind"
"One of a kind"
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
never seen it looking so ugly before..........
cheddar cheese
Major General
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
show off................
cheddar cheese
Major General
Hehe...I got tons of great shots on my computer... 8)
There is an other things in discussion of best setup we should talk about. Its about where to place those guns best on the plane. Big gun placed on the wing would surely decrease the fligtstability and reduce accuracy when firing those weapons. To have A good stable and accuracy gun-platform wouldn't the best place to have it close to the gravitycentern on the plane. The Henscel Hs 129 carried a 75 mm gun and its a weary big gun for this small plane to carry. wasn't tank-fully that it could carry that gun because it is mounted weary close to the center?
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
I think that the best place was in the centreline of the aircraft, for example between the cilinders banks in V-12 engine fighters.
Is curious to note that the russians technicians were able to fit the powerful Ns-37 de 37x195mm in relative small planes, like the Lagg-3IT and the Yak-9T, but the germans could not do that with the MK-103 a smaller gun in his front line figther , the Bf-109.
Is curious to note that the russians technicians were able to fit the powerful Ns-37 de 37x195mm in relative small planes, like the Lagg-3IT and the Yak-9T, but the germans could not do that with the MK-103 a smaller gun in his front line figther , the Bf-109.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
but the -109 was tiny!! there wasn't any room inside!!
Erich
the old Sage
tanks no but soft skinned vehicles like MT by using a mix of AP and HE. what a mess............this is what Ju 87D-5's used on the Ost front for example
E ♪
E ♪
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
The Lagg-3 was also tiny.
Few aircraft actually placed the powerful MK-103 between the V-12 cilinders. One was the plane of the image above the Tank Ta-152C, other the Do-335, and...I think we must stop counting.
Anyway the russian 37 mm was a superior weapon.
LaGG-3-37 "White 75"
303 IAp
M. Kravchuk
1943
Few aircraft actually placed the powerful MK-103 between the V-12 cilinders. One was the plane of the image above the Tank Ta-152C, other the Do-335, and...I think we must stop counting.
Anyway the russian 37 mm was a superior weapon.
LaGG-3-37 "White 75"
303 IAp
M. Kravchuk
1943
