Zaggs Fw 190D-9 211164 - Black <4 and his continuing scratchbuilding adventures...

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So chalk pastels and this 'pigment' stuff may well be different?!?!? Moral of the story may well just be then, dont trust the teenage, zitty 'Warhammer' kid working at the Hobby Shop...
 
Dan I have the same sort of pigment from Mig which I have used to quite good effect in the past. I usually place a small blob of the black smoke onto a kitchen towel and beside it a lighter colour like light dust and then do a small mix to get a slightly lighter colour than the black. I apply it very lightly with a short flat ended brush as to get a slight soiled effect it doesn't take much. You can then agin brush the area with a clean soft brush to remove left over dust particles. Or use a 'Q' tip to rub it in if you really want a dirty mark.
 
Cheers Vic, I'll try that... I grabbed two of these Vallejo colours (purely because vol/price was better than MIG) - a dark, sooty almost-black-brown and a slate grey (remembering that intensive exhaust staining becomes dark grey near the source as it gets thick). Further experiements today have resulted in a 'slightly better' look, but the removal of excess pigment stained everything around it (i just gently blew the excess); I like the idea of clean up with a q-tip actually - will try that - and by the sound of it, I maybe trying to go TOO dark, TOO quick...

Either way, its a learning experience, but ha brought the Dora project to a screaming halt for the time I normally pick up things pretty quickly, but just havent quite figured the correct mental approach to pastel/pigments I guess... But there is no rush

On the other hand, the Ta 152C-1 is in full swing - the red half of the JG 301 Rumpfband goes on shortly, followed by the 'standard 76/75/83' scheme, as per RLM drawings (which will NOT include the dark patch behind the Balken/Hakenkruez insignia - I just cant see the point if efficency is important)... Then, i) as this is a bit of a 'what if' project and ii) we know the a/c on strength in Apr.45 we're effectively grounded, its getting a D-13 "Yellow 10" meets that unusual 'camoflaged power-egg' type finish OVER the basic scheme. That way I can 'overspray' the WNr - I think it'll end up as "Green 1"...
 
So maybe start light, see how it looks and if I want more, just slap some more on before the final coat of Klear Kote?
 
I'm starting to come to grips with it... I think... Sort of... Trying to resist going to paint...

As for paint, Now that the Rumpfband is sorted out, I can go a bit mental on this Ta 152C-1 (ie, try some different approaches and things)... Plan Part A is what I feel the 'factory Scheme' would have been (based upon RLM documentation and blown up examples)...



Second is me thinking outloud in the vein of Yellow 10 - part of me even wants to mask the markings and spray those straight on too... Could be interesting

 
Cheers Aaron - the thread has seemingly evolved into something to include both my 'super detail' Fw 190D-9 project, as well as my 'plausible what-if' Ta 152C-1... The next project (that has entered the planning and drawing on plastic with markers stages) - a Ta 152E-1 - I will endeavour to keep the 'other stuff' out of the thread
 
@Wayne, yeah Im going to paint this C-1 up in the standard camo first and then leave it sit for a few days and decide... I still have a foot in either camp. And as for the standard camo above, thats my take on the various published 'claims' - using the style of demarcation (ie VERY LOW) on the power egg we see in the H-1 series and a similiar undersurface layout. I'm edging away from the late war, simplified lower surface Balkenkreuz (and back to the 'outline' type), though happy with Larger H-type Hakenkruez on the fin, after reviewing (again) the blown up Leipzig a/c pictures - tho I think I am going to have to ignore the EE 'suggested' WNr (600xxx series - which wouldnt that have conflicted with D-9 WNr???) and run with an 830xxx number (like 830001 or something)... Just a gut feeling!

Oh and I am trying a different approach to painting this too - instead of starting with flat aluminium, then RLM76, RLM75, RLM83, etc, Im going the reverse. Rumpfbands (as I have noticed you do those first - especially useful when you need to undercoat with a yellow - Tamiya Flat yellow thinned with distilled water seems to be an AWESOME yellow undercoat, then apply brighter colours... Unrelated, but I'd like to try the Green/White Chequered KG(J) 27 Rumpfband sometime ), followed by RLM75/83, mask wing roots and stabs then RLM76 and metal... Come back with 75/83 for mottling... Just an experiment...

As for the Pastel, how 'sticky' is this stuff is its powdered state??? Because honestly, the first pass of an airbrush is blowing a not inconsiderable amount of the applied pigment around? Should I be doing anything like wiping the surface over with alcohol or water 'dampened' cloth to provide it with something to 'cling to'??? The slightest hint of sheen that this Matte Paint has, seems to provide absolutely no where for the pigment to key to, so its almost like you need to 'abrade' or 'rub it in' into the surface to get any sort of colour transfer to remain...

D
 
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I've always had the best result with applying the pastels to the final flat coat - better adhesion. As for the camo scheme on your C-1, I'm with Wayne. If in fact a couple of C's reached combat status, it would be unlikely in my mind that there would have been time or material available to paint an elaborate camo scheme on them.
 
OK then, in that case, the D-9 will be going gloss when I next have a few hours and I will worry about the exhaust staining later on - Uni starts back tomorrow (well, today actually - in 4hrs actually); luckily from a teaching point of view there are no Tutorials to give this week and from a learning point of view my Monday lecture (4hrs of it!!!! the joy of those final year undergrad Software Engineering courses) doesnt start til 3pm.

The C-1 is now a Satin/Matte RLM75 over most of it and I must say looks INCREDIBLE - It had been a variety of colours (pre-shading in Black and RLM81 (Brown-Violet), Dark Grey Primer (BS381C), Squadron Green, colour-sanded yellow primer for the Rumpfband (which added a whole interesting smooth transition after sanding), RLM 27 overspray (gold/yellow), RLM 23 (red) overspray and of course the medium grey of the plastic) and the solid, dark colour (over all the upper surfaces and tail) make it look VERY business-like...

Re: the camo feedback - this is very much appreciated also. My logic had been much along the lines of "Yellow 10"; a brand-spanking new a/c, with allied air superiority and little fuel to fly on, so ground camo to preserve the a/c became a higher priority (reflected also in what we see on the 401xxx, late 500xxx and 601xxx series factory camo's, with the mottles on the vertical surfaces becoming heavier, more oriented towards grond concealment and the 'transition' to the undersurface colour occuring lower and lower - for example, late Fiesler a/c featured sides and tails that were almost entirely layered RLM81/82/83)... But yeah, Wayne and Crimea, your thoughts are steering me back towards a more factory oriented scheme - though a flick through Japo Dora vol II and EE Ta 152, is seeding the idea of not just bringing the power-egg demarcation lower (as in my painting guide), but bringing the entire side fuselage demarcation further down.

The negative of this little research has re-seeded the 'white fuselage Balkenkruez' requirement (again, based on VERY late Fiesler D-9 production)...

Do you see why I try not to dabble too much in "what-if's"?!?!?! OK, must sleep - Uni, Work and etc tomorrow... errr, today!


Dan
 
I bought some 'proper' pastels today too, from Uni - I'd forgotten how cheap you can get art supplies and etc, from there! And in other news, today brought 2x Eduard Fw 190D-9 Profipacks, the JV44 Fw 190D combo and a book called "Götterdämmerung - volume 1", full of photo's from the 'scraping centres' after WW2... Having paged through and found some interesting D-9/D-11 stuff in there, trying to find out if this series lasted more than one volume!

Else, D-9 has received the last little brush touch-ups (with 'repair grey' here and there, soem weathering, etc) and is probably ready for glossing... The Ta 152C is almost masked sufficently for the Green to go on... And I did another set of 'Colour Test Cards', using Gunze colours and Lifecolor colours, to test the darker RLM83 claims (such as Jerry Crandall claiming FS 34079 for an approx RLM83) because I am still just not happy with the tonal differences I am getting. I THINK I have decided (in both the case of the LIFECOLOR acrylics) the 'Bright Green' is OK, but the Dark Green needs to be somewhere between their RLM82 (which is the darker of the LIFECOLOR 'Eighty-Greens') and their FS 34079 - probably closer to the Gunze FS 34097 (yes, I said 34097, not 79, which is a darker shade of the same 'green' that LIFECOLOR use)... I might even shoot some on this Ta 152C - the Gunze seems to like the LIFECOLOUR Thinner...

Then I'm going to try these other pastels ($1 each at uni for huge lumps of the stuff - I got a soot black, medium slate grey and a mid 'brick' brown) -if touching them is anything to go by, they're more 'adhesive' than the Vallejo pigment...


So many things to re-learn and so many new things to learn (and yes, I am INTENTIONALLY trying to NOT think about the Maths Lecture I sat through today )
 
Update - This week has been hectic with Uni and work and etc, thus the D-9 has sat stationary and the work I have done has resulted in the Ta 152C getting maybe 90% of the camo on (1/48 is SOOO much easier to mottle on!) so I can use it as a 'test article' for these pastels and pigments - the effort that has gone into the Ta 152C compared to the D-9, plus the fact that Im not really OK with the Ta 152C shape, make it perfect for this mission!

What I have learnt (and thus will apply to the D-9 and the future list of 'Super Detail Projects' - a Fw 190D-14 or D-15, a Ta 152E-1, etc - as well as the bulk of my Focke-Wulf Langnasen project) recently is:
- Pressure and Flow is CRITICAL airbrushing mottles and thus consistency must be continuously monitored; considering a wetting agent/retarder for these acrylics to keep the consistency more consistent!
- LifeColor 'Metal' colours are total rubbish - I'm returning to the Tamiya Flat Aluminium tomorrow, despite its issues as well!
- Masking takes up SOOOO much time!
- Pastels and Pigments are harder to use than they look... I'mt happier with the effect I get from (the 800-900% cheaper) pastel blocks I got from the Uni Art Store, than the expensive Vallejo Pigment
- And finally, there is no such thing as a 'simple' Fw 190D scheme!

What is left to test (on the Ta 152C) - Alclad Lacquers Pastels/Pigment ON THE MODEL!
 
Update - This week has been hectic with Uni and work and etc, thus the D-9 has sat stationary and the work I have done has resulted in the Ta 152C getting maybe 90% of the camo on (1/48 is SOOO much easier to mottle on!) so I can use it as a 'test article' for these pastels and pigments - the effort that has gone into the Ta 152C compared to the D-9, plus the fact that Im not really OK with the Ta 152C shape, make it perfect for this mission!

What I have learnt (and thus will apply to the D-9 and the future list of 'Super Detail Projects' - a Fw 190D-14 or D-15, a Ta 152E-1, etc - as well as the bulk of my Focke-Wulf Langnasen project) recently is:
- Pressure and Flow is CRITICAL airbrushing mottles and thus consistency must be continuously monitored; considering a wetting agent/retarder for these acrylics to keep the consistency more consistent!
- LifeColor 'Metal' colours are total rubbish - I'm returning to the Tamiya Flat Aluminium tomorrow, despite its issues as well!
- Masking takes up SOOOO much time!
- Pastels and Pigments are harder to use than they look... I'mt happier with the effect I get from (the 800-900% cheaper) pastel blocks I got from the Uni Art Store, than the expensive Vallejo Pigment
- And finally, there is no such thing as a 'simple' Fw 190D scheme!

What is left to test (on the Ta 152C) - Alclad Lacquers Pastels/Pigment ON THE MODEL!
 
Try the citadel mithril Silver some time, i use it with the tamiya thinner, light coats....does the job!

Pastels are best rubbed in to MATT painted surfaces then sealed with the gloss, once you then do the final sheen you can subtely add more pastel if required...
 

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Woah, that silver looks NICE... I note the model in question also has bare metal on the undersurfaces of the tailplanes - never seen that before! And what kit is that out of curiousity??? Looks 1/72?

As for my progress, well everytime I THINK I'm done with colour on the Ta 152C, I find I forgot something! Tonight is the last I think - Flap outers (RLM84* Green-Blue), Prop Blades (RLM70), Stab Bar (RLM23)... Then FINALLY I can test this clear!
 
Just the odd touch up now and we can laquer tomorrow - Props are all painted; I went for a Hand-Painted spinner spiral (going for that 'brushed on' look) and decided to weather the hub like that on the D-13 (ie, MASSIVE oil leakages that heavily stain the rear half of the hub) - Stab 'gruppe' bar now applied and all doors are sprayed... REALLY HAPPY with my fuselage mottling (which is a big lower down the fuselage sides and heavier on the tail than the D-9) and rumpfband (although the 'strangely shaped' rear-fuselage plug has distorted the rumpfbands) - just have to decide whether to pastel before Gloss Klear Kote or after the Sealing Matte Klear Kote...

But then again, that is the point of this model - experimentation. While I haven't gone out of my way to do a sloppy job on the C-1, it certainly wont be a show stopper, unless the weathering suddenly turns magic The little D-9 is the real prize!


Dan
 
Zaggy said:
Woah, that silver looks NICE... I note the model in question also has bare metal on the undersurfaces of the tailplanes - never seen that before! And what kit is that out of curiousity??? Looks 1/72?
Click to expand...

The kit is the 1/72 Aoshima H-0 kit. I went with the silver/NMF under the tailplane as the reflection I could see made this a possibility.
 
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