Zaggs Ta 152H-0 - St./JG 301 'Orange' - and his attempts to keep things OOTB!

Discussion in 'Start to Finish Builds' started by Zaggy, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    #1 Zaggy, Apr 6, 2012
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
    Well, Im sure you all loved Zaggs Fw 190D-9 211164 - Black <4 and his continuing scratchbuilding adventures... as much as I did; and due to demand (notice I did not say 'popular demand' ;) ) I have thus commissioned a new thread so that you may all join me on the next chapter of my 'return to modelling' adventures. So, to introduce the project...

    As some will have noticed, I'm one of those Fw 190D/Ta 152 types (but in my defence, I half also recently bought an Fw 190A-8 (+ verlinden + owl decals, to make an A-8/R11) and an Me 262B-1a/U1 (+ verlinden update)), so it doesnt take too much imagination to figure out what was on the list of possible projects! In this instance, I just felt like doing a Ta 152H - thus the contenders are:

    1. Italeri Ta 152H-1 (No 861)
    H1_Italeri.jpg

    This is one of the later Italeri boxings, sans the original engine and stuff like that - which is a shame because it really fills the void nicely! Thus, this kit will need some sort of engine plug, spent casing chute, gun and magazine... The Markings options are a little limited and few stencils are present; but thats not a biggie as I was going to use EagleCal decals anyway! I picked this one up for US$15, with a small Airwaves Photoetched kit too.

    Of interest is that within the earlier Italeri boxings (both Engine and no-Engine version), there is a 'manufactured in Hong Kong by Dragon' sticker.

    2. Dragon Ta 152H-1 (5501)
    H1_Dragon.jpg

    I think everyone knows this kit, being arguably the best known and most owned of all the Ta 152H kits - photoetch, engine and cowling doors, decent marking options (even if they aren't 100% accurate), most of the factory stencils are present, etc. I've paid as little as Au$15 and as much as US$35 for these kits.

    Of note is the different plastic and etc that you sometimes get. The earlier Dragon Badged kits have the lighter, harder Trimaster/DML plastic, which Im told works differently to the later plastic. Also worthy of note is that some of these 'transitional' Dragon Kits come with DML Instruction sheets.

    3. DML Ta 152H-1 (5501)
    H1_DML.jpg

    As per Dragon Kit above, but moulded in the DIFFERENT plastic - harder and much lighter in colour...

    4. Dragon Ta 152H-0 (5539)
    H0_Dragon.jpg

    This kit was a mega score! Including post, I paid about Au$26. As to be expected, it is as per the above DML/Dragon kits, but has a revised decal sheet; the only problem is the 'Stab Green' is nothing like the RLM25 colours I have seen. In the case of the decals, the green is more like 'lime green'!!! But this is what EagleCals are for :) Use the kit stencils and national insignia and use the EC sheet for specific unit markings... Otherwise, has all the pro's and all the con's of the Dragon/DML kit; engine internals, photoetch, with the dodgy wingtip shape, etc...

    5. Dragon Ta 152C-1/R11 (5573)
    C1_Dragon.jpg

    I know its a C-1, but I bought two of these (about Au$25 each) with the knowledge that they were based heavily on the Trimaster C-0 kit, and thus had the Jumo 213 nose and short span wing, with a 'replacement' DB nose that replaces the Jumo nose after you cut it off! But I wanted to build an E-1, which has the short span wing and the Jumo - that sounds mighty like this kit! Thus the plan is to build one of these as one of the 'junked' E-1's found at Erfurt and the other as maybe a 'finished' a/c - dont know yet!

    As for what you get, you get photoetch, but you dont get an engine - you do get a whole DB603E type nose, which is my case is going to one day find its way into a D-9 or D-12 kit to make a D-14/-15 :)

    6. HobbyBoss Ta 152C-0 or C-1 (81701 81702)
    C0_C1_HobbyBoss.jpg

    While they're a nicely engineered kit, with some awesome features (like separate flaps, rudder ailerons, nice cockpit, really good decals), I have to call into question certain parts of the kits - the fuselage extension is a glaring example that is obvious to anyone with a passing interest in the a/c. Still for the money (if you can find one for the bargain price of Au$22 like I did!) its not a bad kit... I expect with some filler and a good scriber you could possibly fix the extension - something I may try and do with the next one I build!

    7a. Hasegawa Ta 152H-1 'JG301' (Jx2)
    H1_Hasegawa.jpg

    Numerous ppl have told me this kit does not exist! But I had very clear recollections of the hype around its release in the mid 1990's! Identical to the DML release in respect to the plastic and metal, it comes with a different decal sheet, which immediately strikes you as only half done! only 2/3 of the sheet is actually used (Hasegawa used cram stuff in!) and some of the markings are questionable - Im OK with 'Green 3' (WNr unknown ), but 'Red 9' (WNr 150168 )??? Shouldnt that be GREEN??? Still, as I've posted elsewhere, this will become 'Red 6' at some point, if I can just get a little more info on that a/c (I have a theory that I know the identity of that a/c)... Since picking this kit up for US$35 (I didnt hesitate when I saw I for that price), I've been told it possibly rarer than the Original Trimaster kit - thus I am a little hesitant to build it right away!

    7b. Hasegawa Ta 152H-1 (HD2)

    I'd never heard of this kit, the 'joint' Hasegawa Dragon boxing of the Ta 152H-1, released in 1991 - much the same box art as above. Its cast in the 'early' (brittle) DML type plastic, has the 'standard' PE, engine frets, etc; and has the same Decal sheet as the DML/Dragon offering except for an extra 1cm or so in length in order to hold a Hasegawa logo and some swastika's! I probably paid a bit too much for the kit (with postage, ot cost me Au$45), but having NEVER seen this box before (or since) or having seen it in ANY kit listing, it became one of those 'must-haves' (with an upper limit of $50, that is). Brings my 1:48th Ta 152 count to 14 kits... hahahaha


    So which to build???


    Dan
     
  2. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    #2 Zaggy, Apr 6, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
    Now as some will notice, I'd not only already picked what I was building, but I has also started before the above post. But I figure, it doesn't hurt to share a little.

    The plan is to make this:
    H-0_000.jpg
    *ripped off from the decals Im using...

    using this:
    H1_Italeri.jpg

    with the assistance of:
    - Parts-R-Parts #004 Fw 190D-11/-12/-13 engine plug
    - EagleCals EC#134 Ta 152H decals sheet

    Initially I was also going to make use of the Airwaves PE set that came with the Italeri kit, but I didnt think the cockpit needed the PE panel or rudder pedals and the radiator face is of the completely wrong design for the Ta 152H (looks more like a D-series radiator), so that went to the way-side really early in the piece.
     
  3. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    #3 Zaggy, Apr 6, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
    Now that we're officially working on it, this is where we are at;

    1. Fuselage halves have been joined without hassle - none of that Trimaster/DML/Dragon poor fit, although the lack of locating pins does mean you need to be careful. I picked out the places I thought were the most critical and would be hardest to sand (in this case the top of the fuselage gun cover and the lower rear fuselage seam) and made sure that those seams were perfectly aligned. Once clamped with pegs, the lack of locating pins actually made it easy to square those key seams up with a piece of 20x20mm aluminium right angle section that I use for this purpose. I wedged the angle into the rear of the void on the fuselage into which the wing fits, to get everything aligned and square there, added more clamping to the rear fuselage, then did the same on top of the gun cover. In this case however, I used drops of super glue on the inside of the seam to quickly bind things, while the plastic cement did its thing... It all ended up square and required very little filler; in filler that was required was likely attributed to me damaging the parts during removal from the sprue.

    H-0_001.jpg

    Before the halves were joined, the exhaust stacks were added - here is where the well known Trimaster/DML/Dragon poor fit first reered its head. These things just do not work the way theyre designed! My solution was to dremel the locating holes inside the fuselage halves back to flush and remove the locating pins on the exhaust stacks - suddenly, hey presto! Perfect fit, and using plastic cement, you get the opportunity to precisely align the stacks too!

    H-0_002.jpg

    2. The engine issue - well, as the kit does include the engine mounts and MK108 body, I figured I'd chop up a Parts-R-Parts D-11/-12/-13 engine plug and wedge it between the engine mounts, with the gun sticking out the back. While the Parts-R-Parts plugs are an awesome quick-fix, they arent exactly a highly accurate rear quarter of a Jumo 213; for most ppl, the plug would be completely sufficent to fill the void, but I have a problem and just couldnt leave it alone; so it got cut, sanded, things added, things corrected, etc. Then I glued it to the engine mounts, added the gun sat back and liked what I saw.

    H-0_004.jpg

    Yes, I still need to add plumbing, ejector chute and ammo drum, but so far Im happy :) Test fitting looks like:

    H-0_005.jpg

    3. Cockpit is almost done... As Ive learnt, Macro Photography is cruel, but such is life... Most of it has been painted, PVA glue added to the faces of the dials for that glassy look and little bits of extra wire/solder in the small voids that can be seen into. Just need to add the harnesses, stick and canopy crank (to the side of the fuselage) and we're good to glue it all together.

    H-0_003.jpg


    D
     
  4. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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  5. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    nice
    have the Italeri kit in my stash, just the one though all by its lonesome !!!!
     
  6. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    @Rochie, so far it seems like a good enough kit (Ive two of the Italeri H-1 kits, four DML/Dragon H-1's, the Dragon DX08 H-0, Hasegawa H-1, two Dragon C-1/R14's two of the HobbyBoss C-series and an RV Resin kit of V20 (which might become V29 - not sure yet). I've yet to come across any of the reported major poor fit issues (though I have had to lightly sand some of the cockpit parts so they dry fit correctly) - but I havent gotten to the wings yet, which always seem to draw the most criticism with the Trimaster/DML/Dragon kits. Dry fitting the lower wing section is suggesting a POSSIBLE issue at the front of the lower wing-to-fuselage join, but nothing that cant be corrected (in theory) with a small piece of sprue acting as a tab.

    As funny as it may sound, out of all the Ta 152's listed in the first post, the most exciting project is the Ta 152E-1; possibly because I have never seen one attempted and possibly because for me, it represents arguably the most attractive Ta 152 configuration. The 'nicer' loking Jumo 213E nose mated with the faster short-span wing (faster rolling and supposedly faster overall at low level; as well as faster landing speeds ;) ), just looks right. Plus the small collection of stuff I have for it (Aires Jumo 213 and Mk 108, Overboost Exhausts and Flaps, some PE, etc) makes it something that does excite me! Second in the list of exciting projects tho, is the "Orange" a/c - I guess I have gone with "Orange" as its a simplier build, while I am finishing the D-9 also. So maybe once the D-9 has been put on the shelf to collect dust, the E-1 can start! :)
     
  7. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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  8. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    #8 Zaggy, Apr 7, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
    My name is Dan, I have a problem...

    It seems I can't pick up a kit and NOT do something 'extra' to it... The title of this thread mentions my original intention to do this kit pretty much out of the box (OOTB). But now it seems I have mostly scratch-built engine bay and gun bay, extra detail in the cockpit and I am now working on a firewall... Then I will stop, I promise...


    Dan

    Addendum : 8 April - Well, the Cockpit, Engine/Gun and Firewall are now in place... :) Back to being as OOTB as my 'proclivities' will allow... ;)
     
  9. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    I know people do have 'issue' with the Trimaster/DML/Dragon fit, but working with the lower wing section (to make sure the 'see through' wheel wells are detailed enough) I have to say that I am impressed with the fit. Yes, I have had to add a small 'tab' to the front of the lower wing (much like the HobbyBoss kit employs) and gently file the mating surfaces, but when held up to each other, there is only the slightest of gaps at the front and rear edges of the part. What must be mentioned though is now that the part is off the sprue, there is slight warpage (downward) in the outter 1/3-1/4 of each wing - might be cause for some thin brass rod to be inserted. Upper surfaces to come next - I am thinking about bonding them to the fuselage before the lower wing, so I can sort out the internal seam of the wing (and apply some 'Alloy Number' decals to the internal metal) first...

    As for the rest of it, well contrary to my last post, I did continue with detailing... I 'had to' add some more internal structure and plumbing to the rear most part of the 'engine/gun bay' and extended the bottom of the ejection chute to the lower wing parts; but now I think that's all done. All that I think I want to do now is looking into making a radiator - I need some 19.5mm external / 18mm internal tube... Back to it...
     
  10. Aaron Brooks Wolters

    Aaron Brooks Wolters Well-Known Member

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    Dan,....the disease is terminal I'm afraid. You'll just have to do the best you can to resist the urge to scratch build but I do believe all attempts will be futile for there is no known cure at present.:lol:
    The build is looking great to by the way.:thumbleft: :cool:
     
  11. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    I'll post some pictures when the radiator is in... I've decided to keep it simple and just go with a simple ring of plastic card. I spent a few hours trying to build a more detailed thing, but after belting my head against the wall, I opted for the simpler appraoch :) Also going to lightly undercoat the insides of the radiator fairing and etc, before gluing it all together, so I guess I'll be mixing up a suitable colour in the next day or two, based upon LifeColor Gloss Orange (FS 12246) with some red added (about 10%-25% I think).
     
  12. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    ........as long as you don't do a '13' of any kind, those mine...mine...mine...mine!! :lol:
    Looking forward to this.
    Can't remember seeing an E-1! :oops: :lol:
    Carry on!
     
  13. herman1rg

    herman1rg Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, looking forward to the finished colour scheme (dark glasses ready)
     
  14. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    @Lucky13, I was planning on doing Ta 152H-0 St./JG 301 'Black 13' at some point, but have since been informed that tactical code never actually existed, despite the set of decals floating around for the a/c - otherwise, to my knowledge, no other '13' coded Ta 152's ever flew.

    As for the E-series a/c, there were the designated recon types; the E-0 and E-1 were to fly with the short span wing (attached to what was basically an H-series fuselage), while the E-2 was the long span wing. The E-2 eventually became the H-10 (based on the H-0) and the H-11 (based on the H-1). In the case of both short and long span a/c, they were to have larger rear fuselage access doors for the mounting of a vertical camera, a 'sight' for this camera and some manner of forward facing camera. Still need to do a little more research on the E-1 (as there's some conflicting evidence regarding which rear fuselage access panel was to be enlarged and pictures of the almost complete a/c dont seem to have the fairing for the fwd facing camera where i would have expected it), but it should be a fun project! :)
     
  15. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Quite disappointed that there never was Ta 152 numbered '13'....but there's always a discussion if that's true or not.. :lol:
    But, one can always work around it, with the Wk. Nr.. ! ;) :lol:
    Looking forward to this! :thumbright:
     
  16. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    Well, the 'reliable source' has told me there was never a 'Black 13', so I have to run with that! Log books dont show the a/c, etc... But yeah, WNr 150013 CW+CM, first flown in Jan-45. No info on usage or fate... :(I guess you could always do it with its delievery code (CW+CM) in the standard camo and '0013' Werk Nummer...
     
  17. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    #17 Lucky13, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
    Always a start mate! Cheers! :thumbright:
     
  18. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    the Ta deemed black 13 is actually black 3 with photo and Flugbuch evidence. this is only one case. much perception about III./JG 301's used in limited service but there was a cadre of 35 Ta's and not all have been accounted for.

    as for "13's" much better off to find A-8, A-9's and Doras in JG 301............
     
  19. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    See! Erich knows all!!! As soon as Erich told me "Black 13" didnt exist, I took it virtually as gospel (based mostly on his reputation). Thus, plans changed for that kit; H-1 "Green 5" (WNr. 150174) is planned...
     
  20. Zaggy

    Zaggy Member

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    BTW Erich; whats the Werk Nummer of "Black 3"??? Is it 150007, as 'hinted at' by Harmann or something else?
     
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