9/11 Coincidences?

[ToughOmbre]

Listen do not start with your sh*t with me, to start and take me on personally is not a good idea, who do you think you are

I think evangilder said it best in his previous post....

"You can believe what you want to believe, but to make a statement with no way to back it up and then say "I don't want to talk about it" is cowardly."

TO

 

[Henk]

You see, how the hell can I "talk" to you if you just do not give a sh*t? So why waste my time to talk to a death person. I never tried to convince anyone, I only said I thought and I think.

 

[Njaco]

Henk, don't want to start no war. I am curious and would like to give you another point of view.

I had a relative who worked as a paralegal in one of the buildings close to WTC. She was there and what she told me after I can not imagine going through.

Another relative worked in DC as a housing rep for officers and staff at the Pentagon and other installations near there. She lived only a few blocks away. She told me nobody knew what was coming and that it was pure chaos. Thats what I'm remembering now is she telling me nobody knew in the one place that could probably plan an action like this if it was true.

Personally my work allows my status as Essential Personnel and we were put on alert and then made ready to go to Ground Zero. I work with the police departments and rescue with dogs - body dogs - and we were going up if we got the ok. By then thousands of people were descending on NY to help and after several days we weren't needed. A couple police dogs I know did go with their handlers and one just recently died (the dog) and the vets say possible from the rescue effort.

I say all this because with all the people I was in contact with - first hand - from Pentagaon to Emergency Response, nobody knew. No warning, nothing. It this was planned, this big an operation, and nobody knew. I don't believe it was a conspiracy.

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Listen do not start with your sh*t with me, to start and take me on personally is not a good idea, who do you think you are

Henk calm the **** down right now!!!!

What the hell did you expect from people??? It is a very touchy subject among Americans and we have taken it very easy on you. No one has personally attacked you or anything.

You stated you thought it was done by the government. People have shown you facts that prove it is wrong. Rather than show them facts that might prove you are right (which I dont think you can) you get all pissy.

As Eric said, it is very cowardly of you...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You see, how the hell can I "talk" to you if you just do not give a sh*t? So why waste my time to talk to a death person. I never tried to convince anyone, I only said I thought and I think.

Henk go back and read all the posts. Actually take the time to read them okay.

No one attacked you personally. You started a touchy subject, now dont walk away from it.

 

[SeaSkua]

What about Coventry during WW2?

Are you saying the BOMBS were dropped by BRITISH planes????
CHURCHILL agonized over the information but he decided that they could not evacuate COVENTRY without destroying the ability to use ENIGMA in the future.

 

[Henk]

Henk go back and read all the posts. Actually take the time to read them okay.

No one attacked you personally. You started a touchy subject, now dont walk away from it.

Walk away? I told you I do not have my prove anymore so why still stay and explain.

I am not a coward, I know when to fight a battle and when to just leave it be.

I do not want to f*ck up my whole experience with this forum just over this.

NOW leave it be and lets just carry on talking some other sh*t we love to do here.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Not to jump into the frey but I'm going to post some stuff from another site I subscribe to....

Conspiracy chasers would want the public to believe that flight 93 was shot down by F-16s. Here's some food for thought....

The F-16 is a multi role fighter used for air-to-air combat and ground support. Most bases that operate this aircraft train for the multi role mission and prepare for overseas deployment.

The F-15 is the USAF primary air-to-air fighter and the backbone of air defense of the Continental US. During the cold war years, F-15s normally did the intercepting of snooping Russian aircraft. Their role is basically the same.

MY POINT - F-16s will normally not be on alert for interception or scramble!

911 Research does do a good point of showing this but fails to mention F-16s are normally not under the control of NORAD or on air defense alert, that job is for the F-15....

9-11 Research: Air Defense
Good job but some errors.

From the site - "At 10:01 AM the FAA ordered the 180th Fighter Wing out of Swanton, Ohio, to scramble F-16 fighters." The FAA has no authority to "order" fighters to scramble - that lies with the USAF (DUH!)

This unit was the only F-16 unit close enough to perform an intercept over Pennsylvania in the shown time frame although F-16s as far away as Andrews and Michigan were now being called. One controller from New Hampshire reports another F-16 was in the area as well. Flight 93 crashed at 10:06, that gave the fighters at from the 180th FW (the closest ones) 5 1/2 minutes to scramble, get to altitude, pick up the target and shoot down flight 93 like some alleged.

Let's see, the F-16s top speed is 1,321 mph. From the base to the crash point of flight 93 is 233 miles. That would of meant the aircraft had to take off and immediately go to full after-burner and reach the target in 5 minutes - If the F-16 went full afterburner climbed up to altitude and shoot down flight 93, it would of also meant that the aircraft was performing within the lower part of it's combat radius which is about 330 miles. That means the aircraft might would not make it back to Toledo.

The closest place to land would of been Pittsburgh, but no conspiracy chasers jump on this...

It would of also meant that if the intercept would of happened under the noses of Pittsburgh International Airport and other ATC Centers - if a shoot down would of occurred, someone would of heard it...

The final tally - every East Coast ATC center is attempting to talk to flight 93 - several F-15s and F-16 in the air. No one admits to a shoot down order although the first two F-15 pilots on scene were told that flight 93 was shot down (I even remember that being reported in the chaos and confusion of the day) and no ground crews who service these aircraft (who happen to be mainly non-career enlisted personnel) admit to any weapons being deployed after all of this. - THIS IS THE BIGGEST HOLE OF ALL WITH REGARDS TO FLIGHT 93! - Someone explain this to me!!!!!

4,000 Jews, 1 Lie

Tracking an Internet hoax.

By Bryan Curtis
Posted Friday, Oct. 5, 2001, at 8:30 PM ET

[Addendum, Oct. 7, 4 p.m. ET: Osama Bin Laden essentially claimed credit for the Sept. 11 attacks in a statement recorded before Sunday's strikes on Afghanistan. "America was hit by God in one of its softest spots," he said. "If it continues with this policy [against Iraq and the PLO], the sons of Islam will not stop their struggle."]

It is an article of faith in many Muslim countries that Israel was behind the attack on the World Trade Center, with many citing as their evidence a "news report" that 4,000 Israelis called in sick from their jobs at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11. The allegation has now appeared on scores of Web sites and bulletin boards, has been reproduced in e-mails too numerous to count, and has run as fact in newspapers and news broadcasts in the Middle East. Where did this charge originate, and what path did it take around the world?

First, a question begs: Where did the precise figure of 4,000 Israelis come from? According to the Anti-Defamation League's Web site, on Sept. 11, the Israeli Embassy released a statement expressing concern about the 4,000 Israeli nationals living in New York City—few of whom actually worked in the World Trade Center. At press time, the embassy couldn't confirm this statement.

According to Nexis and the Google search engine, the first mention of Israeli involvement in the attacks came in a Sept. 17 report on Lebanon's Al-Manar Television. The Los Angeles Times reports that the terrorist group Hezbollah has free access to Al-Manar's airwaves, and the station's Web site claims that the station exists to "stage an effective psychological warfare with the Zionist enemy."

The next day at 6:26 a.m., the American Web site Information Times published an article headlined "4,000 Jews Did Not Go To Work At WTC On Sept. 11," and credited it to an "AL-MANAR Television Special Investigative Report." This was not the first time that Information Times had pointed the finger at Israel. The day after the attacks, it warned in an article that the "terrorist government of Israel … cannot be ruled out" as a suspect. Information Times purports to be edited by Syed Adeeb from the eighth floor of the National Press Club at 549 15th St. NW, Washington, DC, 20045. The Press Club says it has no such tenant and repeated messages sent to the e-mail address for Syed Abeed listed on the site bounce back as undeliverable. Directory assistance for Washington, D.C., has no listing for Information Times.

The "4,000 Jews" page is easily forwarded as e-mail, and this may explain the message's rapid dissemination.

The Information Times article makes three charges:

1) Citing the Jordanian newspaper Al-Watan, it alleges that "Israelis remained absent [on Sept. 11] based on hints from the Israeli General Security Apparatus, the Shabak." No media source except Al-Manar claims to have actually seen the editorial in Al-Watan, which the Jordanian Embassy's information bureau describes as an obscure newspaper with a low circulation. Al-Watan's source? Unnamed "Arab diplomatic sources." (A few newspapers called Al-Watan have Web sites—click here, here, and here to visit them—though none seem to be based in Jordan.)

2) Citing the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot, it alleges that Israeli secret police prevented Prime Minister Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York City on Sept. 11.

3) Citing the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, it alleges that the FBI arrested five Israelis who were caught filming the WTC's smoking rubble from their office building roof. (They were being held on the charge of "puzzling behavior.")

No other media outlet that can be searched through Nexis or Google has confirmed the Information Times claims about Sharon and the five Israelis.

Within days, the story appeared in newspapers around the world. A remarkably similar version appeared under the byline of Irina Malenko in Russia's Pravda on Sept. 21. Pravda removed the article from its Web site a few hours after posting, calling it a "great and foolish mistake," but it can still be accessed here. On Sept. 21, the Chicago Tribune reported that a Pakistani paper, which it did not name, had published a similar account. In his Sept. 23 Slate "Dispatch" from Islamabad, Peter Maass reported that a local pro-Taliban politician repeated the 4,000 Jews claim at an anti-U.S. rally. On Sept. 26, Pakistan's Business Recorder printed the story about 4,000 Jews in language almost identical to the original Al-Manar article as a letter to the editor under the name "Hakeem." The same day, the New York Times reported that the allegation had appeared in a newsletter published by an Islamic charity and in lesson plans prepared by Egyptian middle-school teachers. On Oct. 4, the Chicago Tribune spotted the allegation in a Saudi paper, which it did not name. In the Oct. 8 issue of Time, Tim McGirk reported from Pakistan that the story had swept through the country's mosques and Urdu newspapers.

On Sept. 28, USA Today repeated the claim in the context that "Muslims the world over" had tried to pin the attack on Israel. USA Today did not explain the origin of the charge. The Village Voice did the same on Oct. 2. The hoax-debunking site Snopes.com assailed the story, as well. With the Web as a weapon, a lie spreads quickly and easily. With the Web as a corrective tool, the same lie becomes much easier to bat away.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Pt 2

NOTE THE DATE OF THIS REPORT

Philippines: U.S. missed 9/11 clues years ago

Allegation follows congressional report faulting spy agencies

From Maria Ressa
CNN
Saturday, July 26, 2003 Posted: 5:14 PM EDT (2114 GMT)


MANILA, Philippines (CNN) – CNN has obtained documents showing a Philippine police report about the terrorist plot of September 11, 2001 that was given to the FBI in 1995 and the U.S. agency's summary document of the report, which left out any mention of the plot.

Philippine authorities said the United States did not take their information seriously. The documents come on the heels of a congressional report that indicates the U.S. intelligence community missed several clues that could have added up to the terrorist plot before the attacks. (Full story)

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of those attacks and the highest-ranking al Qaeda operative in custody, told his U.S. interrogators that planning for the attacks on New York and Washington began in 1994 in the Philippine capital.

In the mid-1990s, Mohammed, who had become al Qaeda's third-highest-ranking leader by the time he was arrested in 2003, lived in an apartment in Manila. (Mohammed profile)

Mohammed told his U.S. interrogators that he and his nephew, Ramzi Yousef -- who is serving a life sentence for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing -- began plotting what would become the September 11 attacks seven years earlier.

Test runs in the Philippines


In 1994, the two tested airport scurity -- Mohammed on a flight from Manila to Seoul, South Korea; Yousef on a flight from Hong Kong to Taipei, Taiwan.

Mohammed told authorities that the two men converted 14 bottles of contact lens solution into bombs by replacing their contents with an inexpensive liquid explosive readily available in the Philippines.

In place of a detonator, Mohammed said, he taped a metal bolt to the arch of his foot. He then wore jewelry and clothing with metal to confuse airport security.

He said he and Yousef placed condoms in their bags to support their cover story that they were traveling to meet women.

Later that same year, Yousef would plant and explode a bomb on a Philippine Airlines flight during another test run. He had boarded a jet in Manila under an assumed name, planted the device under a seat and left the aircraft during a layover. The bomb exploded during the next leg of the flight, killing one passenger and injuring 10 others, but the plane remained intact and made an emergency landing in Japan.

The two were set to carry out a plot to bomb 11 U.S.-bound airliners over the Pacific in a 48 hour span -- attacks that the FBI estimates would have killed 4,000 people.

Those attacks were prevented when an accidental fire in their safe house apartment led to their cell being broken up.

Authorities searching Yousef's laptop computer found detailed plans to blow up the airliners -- including flight numbers and schedules, and bombmaking formulas.

Mohammed was indicted in the United States in 1996 for his alleged involvement in that conspiracy. That indictment landed him on the FBI's list of 22 Most-Wanted Terrorists, issued in October 2001.

Only one member of the cell was arrested in the raid: Abdul Hakim Murad, Yousef's classmate, who had trained as a commercial pilot at four aviation schools in the United States.

Col. Rodolfo Mendoza, a counterterroism expert with the Philippines police, interrogated Murad and discovered what he believes is the blueprint for September 11.

In addition, the plots uncovered in Manila included one to assassinate the U.S. president and plans to attack nuclear power plants.

"They had a plan to crash the airplane -- the commercial jetliner -- into the specific target," Mendoza said. "They have done it after seven years. So I believe all these plans, old plans, are supposed to be executed."

The 1995 report listed the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as targets.

Philippine authorities say all the information they discovered was handed over to the FBI.

Top al Qaeda figure

Mohammed told interrogators that the 1995 operation was his first for al Qaeda.

Born in Kuwait in either March 1964 or April 1965, Mohammed's al Qaeda roots run deep and wide

Through the years, he passed along the lessons he learned to agents he controlled, including so-called millennium bomber Ahmed Ressam and shoe bomber Richard Reid.

Ressam, 34, has been convicted of conspiracy to detonate a suitcase bomb at Los Angeles International Airport on New Year's Eve of 1999. He is awaiting sentencing. Reid pleaded guilty to trying to blow up an airliner with explosives concealed in his shoes, and in February was sentenced to life in prison.

The United States accuses Mohammed of being involved in planning large-scale al Qaeda operations, from the bombing of the USS Cole in a Yemeni harbor in 2000 to the bombing of the bar frequented by westerners in Bali, Indonesia, last year.

Al Qaeda expert Rohan Gunaratna said Mohammed ordered the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was kidnapped in Pakistan in 2002 while researching an article and later found dead.

Al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah, who is in U.S. custody, has named Mohammed as a key financial figure in the September 11 attacks.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Pt3
The largest building to ever be destroyed by controlled demolition was the Hudson Building in Detroit, Michigan, on October 24, 1998. The building was 25 stories, over 450 feet. it took almost a ton of explosives and several weeks to accomplish this task...

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=53136

The same company who took out the Hudson Building also took out the Kingdome in Seattle. It took four months to do that one - Controlled Demolition Inc. (CDI) had Aman's drilling subcontractor drill 5,905 holes for CDI's explosive placements in the tension and compression rings, roof ribs, columns and support structure under the Kingdome. During loading operations, CDI laid 21.6 miles of detonating cord and placed more than 4,700 lb. of explosives in critical locations to control the fall of the structure and reduce vibration.

???????????????????

And even another large structure, the Sears merchandise Center in Philadelphia which was destroyed in 1994 REQUIRED OVER 12,000 POUNDS OF EXPLOSIVES!!

One could see the amount of work it takes to set up a building for controlled demolition. As stated previously, even if it was an inside job the resources to carry it out would of been enormous, let alone accomplishing it undetected. On any given day, some 50,000 people worked in the towers with another 200,000 passing through as visitors. The complex was so large that it had its own zip code: 10048.

Here's a picture of a wired building. Do you think this could of been hidden from 50,000 WTC tenant's?!?!?

It would of been impossible to accomplish this undetected. In addition it was documented by Filipino intelligence officials that a plot to hijack aircraft and fly them into buildings was floating around in the terrorist community since the mid-90's. I would agree to this whole thing being a conspiracy if these facts didn't exists, but they do....

At this point what should be looked at is the intelligence failures, the resources of those who attempt to carry attacks like this, and the most important, stopping those who perpetuate Muslim radicals (the ******* clerics) from attacking the US...

 

[Njaco]

Thanks, Flyboy

 

[machine shop tom]

I got into in in another forum with a 9-11 conspiracy theorist. There is no reasoning with these fellows. They get their information from 9-11 conspiracy sites that conveniently leave out pertinent information and common sense. For every "truth" that this fellow posted, I was able to post a factual counter to almost every one.

Of course, there are unanswered questions and gaps in the contradictions in the official record. BUT, in an event of the magnitude 9-11, there are bound to be controversies and finger-pointing.

The huge preponderance of factual evidence leads reasonable people to the obvious conclusion that 9-11 did indeed happen pretty much as we now understand that it did.

One should also remember that the conspiracy business is very lucrative and those in it really don't have to prove anything to make a buck. Or a hundred thousand bucks.

tom

 

[Konigstiger205]

Going back to the coincides of 9/11...you know that movie 23....well we can now make the movie 11...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

One should also remember that the conspiracy business is very lucrative and those in it really don't have to prove anything to make a buck. Or a hundred thousand bucks.

tom

The pinheads that made "Loose Change" are on their 3rd revision. I think their latest trash admits that there was no controlled demolition at the WTC.

If I get a chance I'll find some debunking info at the Pentagon site including the identification of aircraft parts with the actual aircraft Illustrated Parts Manual (IPM).

 

[lesofprimus]

Henk, u need to head to a different area of this board, cause ur presence here in this thread is not conducive to u staying a respected member here, opinion or not....

This pic alone should shut up most of this conversation:

Heres the plane....

Here it is just before the Trade Center...

Its the same fu*kin plane....

Maybe this is closer to the pic that these conspiracy freaks value......

 

[Henk]

Les, did I have anything more to say or did I say anything more about this, I said I left it be, did you not read my posts?

 

[plan_D]

Joe...if the USAF had the EE Lightning that theory of aircraft shooting down Flight 93 might be closer to the truth - they would have got there in time !

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe...if the USAF had the EE Lightning that theory of aircraft shooting down Flight 93 might be closer to the truth - they would have got there in time !

They would of gotten there in time....

But would they have had the fuel to get back!!!

 

[plan_D]

They'd have had enough fuel to get back to the ground... but would end up in a few pieces, especially since it was 330 miles away !

 

[FLYBOYJ]

They'd have had enough fuel to get back to the ground... but would end up in a few pieces, especially since it was 330 miles away !

Here's some info from snoopes about the Pentagon...

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Rumors of War (Hunt the Boeing!)

Even these folks changed their tunes...

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm