DONE: 1/72 Hasegawa TBM-1C Avenger CV-16 USS Lexington Group Build

[Airframes]

That's it. I've got some close-up pics, and I think drawings too. If not the latter, I can draw it from the kit parts on the 1/48th scale kit i'm doing.

 

[wingnutz]

That's it. I've got some close-up pics, and I think drawings too. If not the latter, I can draw it from the kit parts on the 1/48th scale kit i'm doing.

cool, please do post anything for this...but i hope it's no trouble for you...

 

[MFH]

Not to be rude, but to clarify, what unit are you going to mark this Avenger as a part of?

VT-19 was serving on USS Lexington (CV-16) at Leyte Gulf, USS Enterprise was carrying VT-20, and USS Essex was carrying VT-15.

As to the model itself, it's looking good.

 

[wingnutz]

Not to be rude, but to clarify, what unit are you going to mark this Avenger as a part of?

VT-19 was serving on USS Lexington (CV-16) at Leyte Gulf, USS Enterprise was carrying VT-20, and USS Essex was carrying VT-15.

As to the model itself, it's looking good.

hey MFH,

funny how the history books are written huh, but here's a link that shows the orbat...
Task Group Four, TG38.4 order of battle

where VT-19 squadron was both assigned to the big "E" (CV-6) and the uss essex (CV-9) ...

though through written historic accounts during the whole pacific naval campaign of ww2, aircraft from different squadrons landed on any available carrier in the fleet when possible...so, to a certain degree, the whole fleet carried a mix of all it's assigned squadrons...

then again, confirming squadron deployments to a specific operation have always been half the fun...

i did thought of just naming this build under "the battle of the philippine seas" which started from the "marianas turkey shoot" to the final retreat of adm kurita's ijn fleet from the philippine islands...

 

[Airframes]

Hi Glenn, no problem. I'll do it over the next day or so - probably be Wednesday or Thurday when I post it, if that's OK?

 

[wingnutz]

Hi Glenn, no problem. I'll do it over the next day or so - probably be Wednesday or Thurday when I post it, if that's OK?

no worries señor...

 

[MFH]

hey MFH,

funny how the history books are written huh, but here's a link that shows the orbat...
Task Group Four, TG38.4 order of battle

where VT-19 squadron was both assigned to the big "E" (CV-6) and the uss essex (CV-9) ...

though through written historic accounts during the whole pacific naval campaign of ww2, aircraft from different squadrons landed on any available carrier in the fleet when possible...so, to a certain degree, the whole fleet carried a mix of all it's assigned squadrons...

then again, confirming squadron deployments to a specific operation have always been half the fun...

i did thought of just naming this build under "the battle of the philippine seas" which started from the "marianas turkey shoot" to the final retreat of adm kurita's ijn fleet from the philippine islands...

Actually, you're interpreting that order of battle incorrectly. At this stage in the war, US carrier air groups were comprised of VF (fighting), VB (bombing) VT (torpedo) squadrons, and all the squadrons carried the same number as the parent air group.

So, you can see for TG 38.4, Franklin has Air Group 13 (with VF-13, VB-13 VT-13) and Enterprise consists of Air Group 20 (with VF-20, VB-20 VT-20). The numbers 40VF, 34VB, 19VT for CV-6, for example, are the number of those types of aircraft carried, but NOT the actual squadron numbers.

That's why you might think Essex, with the numbers 51VF, 25VB, 19VT, had VT-19 on board, but she actually carried CVG-15, comprised of VF-15, VB-15 VT-15. I know this for a fact because my uncle served on the Mighty E from Christmas Eve 1943 until early 1946, including the battles of the Phillipine Sea and Leyte Gulf as a radar operator, and I have his criuse books and lots of other documentation confirming this.

Actually, confirming squadron deployments for the USN is not that terribly difficult. Here's a link for the Location of U.S. Naval Aircraft, World War II (1942 through September 1945).

Open up the link for 24 October 1944, scroll down to page 3-4 for the Mighty E, the Big E, Lady Lex, and it'll confirm what I told you above. The squadrons of an air group were almost always assigned to the same ship (1942 being the exception, as well as the night fighter detachments, which didn't have parent air groups, such as CVG-76, 77, 78 or 79). Squadrons from one carrier would land on other carriers quite frequently, for lots of reasons, but they were not spread around the fleet. They would be returned to their parent carrier as soon as they could.

There are lots of good photos out there of VT-15 VT-20 aircraft, but I don't know if I could find you a VT-19 Avenger quickly.

Essex TBMs (and F6Fs SB2Cs) at this time carried a horizontal white stripe at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

http://www.ussessexcv9.org/images/USS ESSEX CV WWll 029.jpg

Enterprise aircraft carried a white triangle on the middle of the tail with a number in the middle of it at this time.

http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?uri=detail/barr-img-290&ref=Grumman+TBF-TBM+Avenger

CVG-19 squadrons were all different, with VF-19 carrying numbers behind the cockpit, and VB-19 carrying large white numbers on their vertical stabilizers.

I hope this helps you in your quest. Again, the model is looking good so far.

 

[Maglar]

Beyond words Wingnutz, keep chippin away at it!

 

[wingnutz]

wow, thanks for the timeline info MFH...USS Lexington it is then...


check out this document...
http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/1944/nov1944/28-11-44.pdf page 3 of 52...

i wonder if the enterprise and the lexington suddenly switched air groups???

here's a VT-19 avenger color scheme that i saw on the net...looks quite interesting...

 

[MFH]

wow, thanks for the timeline info MFH...USS Lexington it is then...


check out this document...
http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/1944/nov1944/28-11-44.pdf page 3 of 52...

i wonder if the enterprise and the lexington suddenly switched air groups???

here's a VT-19 avenger color scheme that i saw on the net...looks quite interesting...

I'm glad the info helped. Yes, in late November 1944, Air Group 20 left Enterprise and shifted over to Lexington to replace Air Group 19, and Enterprise converted to a night carrier, and Night Air Group 90 went aboard in late December 1944.

You can find the exact dates here.

One air group replacing another mid-tour happened fairly often. CVG-6 was on CV-6 in late '43, then shifted to CV-11 in early '44, and was replaced by CVG-10. CVG-4's first Pacific carrier was CV-17, was on less than a month in late '44, and when CV-17 was rotated stateside for a refit and repair, CVG-4 shifted to CV-9. CVG-9 returned to the Pacific for its second tour in theater on CV-16 in early '45, and when she was rotated for refit and repair, the air group went to CV-10. It happened with CVG-80, too, and several of the CVLGs as well.

Thanks for the link to the VT-19 TBM. I saw it last night, but I've never seen a corresponding photo, so I didn't post it. I know there are photos that were taken, I've just never seen any of CVG-19's TBMs to confirm the markings, so I can't confirm that's how they were marked.

 

[wingnutz]

I'm glad the info helped. Yes, in late November 1944, Air Group 20 left Enterprise and shifted over to Lexington to replace Air Group 19, and Enterprise converted to a night carrier, and Night Air Group 90 went aboard in late December 1944.

You can find the exact dates here.

One air group replacing another mid-tour happened fairly often. CVG-6 was on CV-6 in late '43, then shifted to CV-11 in early '44, and was replaced by CVG-10. CVG-4's first Pacific carrier was CV-17, was on less than a month in late '44, and when CV-17 was rotated stateside for a refit and repair, CVG-4 shifted to CV-9. CVG-9 returned to the Pacific for its second tour in theater on CV-16 in early '45, and when she was rotated for refit and repair, the air group went to CV-10. It happened with CVG-80, too, and several of the CVLGs as well.

Thanks for the link to the VT-19 TBM. I saw it last night, but I've never seen a corresponding photo, so I didn't post it. I know there are photos that were taken, I've just never seen any of CVG-19's TBMs to confirm the markings, so I can't confirm that's how they were marked.

thanks again mfh...the tri-color scheme was exactly what i was looking for...

would you have any pilot/crew listings info as well??? those night operations with the avengers and hellcats are another build that i'm thinking of adding to this series...specially the hellcats + wing mounted radars...

i'm also looking at a few marine VMF squadrons that were part of the leyte campaigns like MAGSDAGUPAN...as i've always wanted to do SBD and corsair projects, but it has to tie-in with that event...this also ties in with the 1/72 80' elco PT boat that i'm doing as well, which did joint operations during the leyte campaigns...

addendum folks...

VT-19 squadron was assigned to CV-16 USS Lexington...ergo this build shall have the following color scheme, according to the proper timeline;

 

[Wayne Little]

..

 

[Airframes]

Here's a sketch for the torpedo 'aerotail' Glenn. The picture I have is the same as yours, plus another one which isn't very clear.
The drawing shows the dimensions for 1/72nd scale, and the rough sketch shows the postion of the tail over the torpedo's fins and 'ring'. The real thing was a simple plywood structure, normally inpainted, and broke away on contact with the water. It's function was purely to provide stability during the drop.
Hope this helps a bit,
Terry.

 

[Lucke.stz]

looking goo mate !

cheers,

 

[MFH]

thanks again mfh...the tri-color scheme was exactly what i was looking for...

would you have any pilot/crew listings info as well??? those night operations with the avengers and hellcats are another build that i'm thinking of adding to this series...specially the hellcats + wing mounted radars...

i'm also looking at a few marine VMF squadrons that were part of the leyte campaigns like MAGSDAGUPAN...as i've always wanted to do SBD and corsair projects, but it has to tie-in with that event...this also ties in with the 1/72 80' elco PT boat that i'm doing as well, which did joint operations during the leyte campaigns...

No, I don't have any pilot or crew listings. I did find here that VT-19's CO was LCDR F. C. Perry, but I don't have anything else. VF-19 would be a different story, but I got nothing on the torpron.

And I don't have much on the Leyte campaigns. VMFs on the CVs in early '45 is a different story...

 

[wingnutz]

Here's a sketch for the torpedo 'aerotail' Glenn. The picture I have is the same as yours, plus another one which isn't very clear.
The drawing shows the dimensions for 1/72nd scale, and the rough sketch shows the postion of the tail over the torpedo's fins and 'ring'. The real thing was a simple plywood structure, normally inpainted, and broke away on contact with the water. It's function was purely to provide stability during the drop.
Hope this helps a bit,
Terry.

muchas gracias señor terry...

any info on this build is very much appreciated...

 

[Airframes]

You're welcome.

 

[Wayne Little]

Good stuff Terry!

 

[wingnutz]

Here's a sketch for the torpedo 'aerotail' Glenn. The picture I have is the same as yours, plus another one which isn't very clear.
The drawing shows the dimensions for 1/72nd scale, and the rough sketch shows the postion of the tail over the torpedo's fins and 'ring'. The real thing was a simple plywood structure, normally inpainted, and broke away on contact with the water. It's function was purely to provide stability during the drop.
Hope this helps a bit,
Terry.

hey terry,

here's a quick graphic representation that i did of your suggestion...thanks again...which can be done with styrene sheets i guess, i'll post wip shots when i get to it...

 

[Wayne Little]

Sh!t that looks a bit of alright....