Crimea_River
Marshal
**** DONE: Spitfire Mk. I P9306 ZP H of No 74 Squadron Battle of Britain Group Build
- Thread starter T Bolt
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice paint job Glenn. But why the yellow? The yellow ID wing leading edges wasn't introduced until 1941.
- Thread starter
- #123
T Bolt
Colonel
I was working off a profile at the link below. The one at the bottom of the page is from No.74 squadron. Most of the Spits on that page were dated from The Battle of Britain, and all but one have the yellow on the wings.
Aircraft illustration
Aircraft illustration
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Glenn, that's not the yellow leading edge stripe you're seeing, it's the demarcation between the top and bottom colours, mainly the Dark Earth. None of those profiles show the yellow leading edge stripe, and certainly not 'Sneezy's of 74 Sqn. The yellow stripes ran from the joint of the wing tip to the outer edge of where the cannon was fitted on the MkV and, on those remaining MkIIs re-painted in the 'new' scheme, to the line of the inner pair of guns.
I can 100% assure you NO Spits or Hurricanes carried the yellow leading edge ID wing stripes during the BoB - this feature was not introduced until the new 'Day Fighter' scheme came into being, late in 1941, and being made 'official' in early 1942, at which time the colours changed to Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey.
The first change to the 'BoB'- type scheme was the 'Sky' spinner and tail band, along with the black underside to the port wing, which was after the Battle, on 27th November, 1940.
I can 100% assure you NO Spits or Hurricanes carried the yellow leading edge ID wing stripes during the BoB - this feature was not introduced until the new 'Day Fighter' scheme came into being, late in 1941, and being made 'official' in early 1942, at which time the colours changed to Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey.
The first change to the 'BoB'- type scheme was the 'Sky' spinner and tail band, along with the black underside to the port wing, which was after the Battle, on 27th November, 1940.
- Thread starter
- #125
T Bolt
Colonel
The profile still looks yellow to me Terry, but that doesn't mean it's right. I'm sure you know about the dates so I'll have to come up with a fix.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Sorry to mess you about Glenn. I still can't see any yellow, which would be more prominent due to it wrapping around the wing leading edge, and especially with the red-doped gun patches. I think it's just the way the artist has toned and 'softened' the wing leading edge colours, to show the curvature, and given the apparent accuracy of the rest of each scheme, I can't see any decent profile artist getting it wrong. If it is yellow there, then it is definitely wrong !
If you've sprayed the yellow, it should be thin enough to disappear under the other colours, especially if it's given a very light rub-down with fine grit wet and dry.
If you've sprayed the yellow, it should be thin enough to disappear under the other colours, especially if it's given a very light rub-down with fine grit wet and dry.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Sorry to mess you about Glenn. I still can't see any yellow, which would be more prominent due to it wrapping around the wing leading edge, and especially with the red-doped gun patches. I think it's just the way the artist has toned and 'softened' the wing leading edge colours, to show the curvature, and given the apparent accuracy of the rest of each scheme, I can't see any decent profile artist getting it wrong. If it is yellow there, then it is definitely wrong !
If you've sprayed the yellow, it should be thin enough to disappear under the other colours, especially if it's given a very light rub-down with fine grit wet and dry.
If you've sprayed the yellow, it should be thin enough to disappear under the other colours, especially if it's given a very light rub-down with fine grit wet and dry.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Oh my Glenn, you probably want to spit chips, hope it's not to for you to make amends.
I'm sure it will be an easy fix for you Glenn.....no sweat mate!
Crimea_River
Marshal
I agree if not a bit of a pain.
In Glenn's defense, I think the artist got it wrong and that the strip is supposed to represent the yellow edge. Take a look at the two profiles for Unwin's rig QVoH on page one that shows one for Aug 1940 and one for Sept 1940. The latter has the yellow edge and it's clearly excluded on the former. I think he was using the same backgrounds for different profiles but did not take care to make sure they were correct.
Nice site, one that I've had bookmarked for some time, but now that Terry pointed this out I will think twice about relying on it.
In Glenn's defense, I think the artist got it wrong and that the strip is supposed to represent the yellow edge. Take a look at the two profiles for Unwin's rig QVoH on page one that shows one for Aug 1940 and one for Sept 1940. The latter has the yellow edge and it's clearly excluded on the former. I think he was using the same backgrounds for different profiles but did not take care to make sure they were correct.
Nice site, one that I've had bookmarked for some time, but now that Terry pointed this out I will think twice about relying on it.
- Thread starter
- #131
T Bolt
Colonel
Thanks Andy. Now I don't think I'm crazy! The yellow in the profile seemed to match exactly the yellow on the leading edge of the aircraft as it is today in the museum (see picture in post #1) so even though it had been repainted in a later camouflage scheme, seeing the yellow in the profile I just went with it. I wish I hadn't seen the profile because I hadn't even thought about it before then and wouldn't have looked at the museum pic to confirm it. Oh well.... shouldn't be too difficult to fix, Just a waist of time doing it in the first place!!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Must admit, I didn't look at the other pages (will now), so hadn't seen any with the yellow. If George Unwin's kite is there, with yellow leading edges, then it's definitely wrong ! Apart from the fact that, as already mentioned, the yellow hadn't been introduced in 1940, I've got a DVD with some footage and 'stills', showing George and his Spit - and of course, no yellow!
I find it strange that any artist could make such a fundamental mistake, even if using the same base drawing for all profiles, and even if under the pressure of a deadline ! Had it been a month or so either way, in say 1942, then there might be an excuse, but not in the BoB !!!
I find it strange that any artist could make such a fundamental mistake, even if using the same base drawing for all profiles, and even if under the pressure of a deadline ! Had it been a month or so either way, in say 1942, then there might be an excuse, but not in the BoB !!!
Crimea_River
Marshal
You said that already.
hey glen look what i found in Alfred Prices Spitfire a complete fighting history.
looks like your bird on the far right !!!
sorry its not a better pic
Sure does look like it good find Karl!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice find Karl - but careful! The markings indicate immediate pre-war, or early war, maybe late 1939, so it might not be the same airframe.
i'll check but i think the caption with the pic said 1940, it'll be tomorow afternoon as the book is on my other computer in my workshop and its chucking it down so i'm not going outside !!!!!!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'll have a look in both my copies too, and ask Jan to check in the 74 Sqn book I loaned him. The latter has listings of all aircraft used by 74 from WW1 to the 1960s, so, cross-referenced with Shacklady, we can establish which one it's likely to be.
- Thread starter
- #140
T Bolt
Colonel
Great picture Karl! That does look like the right codes on that last spit in line. Too bad it wasn't a little closer to the camera, but then again I never expected to see a period picture of it at all!
Terry according to the aircraft history in post #1, it didn't receive the "H" until Aug 11, 1940. Would those earlier type markings have been replaced by that date?
Terry according to the aircraft history in post #1, it didn't receive the "H" until Aug 11, 1940. Would those earlier type markings have been replaced by that date?
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