Finland, December 30, 1939

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Colin1, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Engineer and overgrown schoolboy
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #1 Colin1, Dec 31, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
    Sorry
    I only noticed this today in yesterday's paper, doesn't quite belong in the 'War in Europe 65 years ago' thread as it wasn't 65 years ago
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Soviet Troops Reported in Revolt
    Fierce fighting among detachments

    'Planes and machine guns bomb own soldiers'

    From our special correspondent, Helsinki, Friday

    A revolt was reported late tonight to have broken out among Soviet troops in the Salla sector of the Finnish Arctic front. The official Finnish News Agency stated that Russian 'planes have been forced to bomb and machine-gun their own troops in this area.

    "There has been fierce fighting between Russian infantry detachments" added the statement. "While shooting was going on, shouting and cries could be heard".

    A detachment of Finnish troops, it was reported tonight, reached and damaged the Murmansk railway which carries the supplies from Leningrad to the Russian troops in the far north. Transport has been interrupted, stopping food supplies to Murmansk where the civil population was said to be in a state of revolt.

    The Finnish ski patrols which have penetrated Russian territory east of Salla, were not confined, I was told today, to the one 'Suicide Company' of 250 men who were first sent forward to attack the Murmansk railway.

    Several patrols of 100 or 200 men each are now operating behind the Russian forces attacking towards Kemijaervi. The Soviet forces, estimated at 10,000 men are thus completely cut off, since Finnish patrols are believed to have destroyed their slender lines of communication.

    General Wallenius, commanding the Finnish Northern Army, has collected a considerable force to oppose the Russians, who are expected to make a frenzied push towards Kemijaervi.

    Meanwhile, unconfirmed reports stated that the original 'Suicide Patrol' had penetrated as far as Kandalaksha, the important Russian base at the head of Kandalaksk Bay, an arm of the White Sea.

    Exceptionally good war maps have been found on the bodies of Russian officers on the Salla front. They are of better quality than those used by the Finnish General Staff itself.

    It is understood that these maps are of German origin and were prepared by the cartographical department of the German High Command.

    There is very little change in the deadlock before the Mannerheim Line on the Karellian Isthmus. The Russians are still collecting huge reinforcements. These include Siberian troops who have been transferred from Manchuria because of their familiarity with severe weather conditions and the accuracy of their shooting.

    Finnish military circles believed that an attempt might shortly be made to land Russian parachute troops behind the Mannerheim Line. Dispositions have been made accordingly.
     
  2. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,064
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
  3. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,592
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hurst, Texas
    :salute:

    Anybody know any good books covering the Russo-Finnish war? I always love to hear stories of the underdog totally porking the guys attacking them!!!
     
  4. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    Hello Colin
    I'd say that the news were typical wartime propaganda.
    At Salla a reinforced Soviet Infantry Div attacked, it had for. ex a tank battalion and reinforcemets incl. a mountain regiment, altogether some 22.500 men. At first against this force there was a single independent battalion without a single gun, it did not have even a single A/T gun. Soil was frozen and early on there was not much snow so tanks were really a nuissance to Finns. Finns were compelled to sent several more battalions to stabilize the situation, most consisted of poorly equipment reservists, especially those formed in Southern Finland suffered from very cold winter first because of lack of tents.

    Hello RabidAlien
    I know lot of good book on Winter War, but they are all in Finnish. I remeber leafing over a Ballantine book on Winter war around 1970, but cannot say anything other on it that usually Ballantine/Purnell softbacks were good.

    Juha
     
  5. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,592
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hurst, Texas
    Thanks, Juha....I'll search Amazon for WinterWar.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
  7. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,198
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    #7 FLYBOYJ, Dec 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
    I've always admired the Finns and the can of "Wop Ass" they bestowed upon the Soviets. It was interesting how the Soviets placed a bunch limitations on Finland and its military in the post war years.

    It goes to show you what a determined people and a well trained military can accomplish!

    :salute:
     
  8. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,782
    Likes Received:
    997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    CGI Creator
    Location:
    Osaka
    #8 Shinpachi, Jan 1, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
    I once had a pen friend in Finland when I was a high school boy.
    Her name was Arja and she was pretty. She stirred up my interest about her nation and I learned some about her nation's history.

    Not only Winter War but the following Jatkosota(Continuation War) was tragic with no support from other nations except Nazi but I was impressed with the people's bravery to make their country survive as an independent nation so much.

    My feeling for Finland is always :salute:
     
  9. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,185
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Public Safety Automotive Technician
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Home Page:
    Man, if there were ever a lopsided war that ended in favor of the underdog, the war between Russia and Finland is it.

    Completely outnumbered, the Fins opened a serious can of whupass on the Soviets and bled them hard.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,064
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I agree, and talk about embarrassing Stalin.

    :salute:
     
  11. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    #11 Juha, Jan 1, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
    Hello RabidAlien
    How I could forget, if you have intrest on early war Soviet tanks and like to know a Russian PoV, in fact fairly balanced one, I have noticed only a few oddities, mostly like the one at the beginning of the chapter on fighting N of the Lake Ladoga. The book claimed that Finnish IV Corps got as reinforcements 8 infantry battalions and one infantry regiment when in fact the reinforcements were 5 infantry battalions and one infantry regiment. Now the inf. rgt of course consisted of 3 infantry battalions, so IV Corps got as reinforcements altogether 8 infantry battalions. That isn’t the only that kind of error in the book and I cannot say are those errors made by the writer or by the translator. The latter may well has been the culprit because I have noticed accusations of sloppy work directed against the publisher before. Most annoying faults of the book are that ends of some chapters are missing, one even ends at midword. But even with those errors IMHO the book is worth of its price. In the end there are technical specs of Soviet tanks and 40 pages of colour profiles and colour 3-views on Soviet and 4 pages on Finnish AFVs. And lot of B/W photos.

    And the book is Maksym Kolomyjec’s Tanks in the Winter War 1939 – 1940. Leandoer Ekholm förlag, Stockholm 2008. ISBN 91-9755896-0-8.

    Juha
     
  12. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    And thanks for the kind words towards Finns, dear fellows.
    We had paid a high price on our independence.

    Juha
     
  13. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,592
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hurst, Texas
    Thanks again, Juha, got those Bookmarked!
     
  14. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,719
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    We Swedes and Finns love each other sooo much, especially during hockey games, don't we Juha? :lol:
     
  15. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    Oh those ice-hockey matches
    now I have not followed them for ages but many years ago Finns had a bad/good habit to loose them during the last few minutes.

    Juha
     
  16. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    36,719
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Nightshift picker
    Location:
    A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland
    Home Page:
    Haven't watched any hockey games for ages either Juha. Remember though, that the fight between Sweden and Finland was the one that I was always looking forward to....:lol:
    Have to say that the Winter War is just as overlooked as the Norway front....
     
  17. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Engineer and overgrown schoolboy
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #18 Colin1, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
    Finns win biggest victory

    Enemy division smashed, chased into Russia

    1,000 prisoners, 43 tanks, 1,170 horses taken

    From our special correspondent HELSINKI, Finland

    News of a Finnish victory near Suomussalmi in Finland's 'waist-line' even greater than the one a fortnight ago in the same region, was released by the General Staff this afternoon. It was the smashing of the 44th Russian Division of between 15,000 and 18,000 men.

    When the details became known, amazing scenes took place in Helsinki. Bells were rung, flags were hung out from every house and in the streets complete strangers embraced in their excitement. The battle was fought between Suomussalmi and Raate, a village on the Russo-Finnish border directly south of Suomussalmi. It culminated in the utter annihilation of the 44th Russian Division, which, as recently reported in The Daily Telegraph, was thrust forward by the Soviet Command to the support of the 163rd Division, defeated by the Finns under General Wallenus.

    A special official Finnish communique issued here today, announcing the victory, stated:

    Objective Achieved
    "The principal objective in the fighting in the southern part of the Suomussalmi sector of the last few days has been the defeat of the 44th Division of the enemy, which was advancing from the direction of Raate towards Suomussalmi.

    The objective has been achieved and the enemy's forces were in the main destroyed.

    Up to the present over 1,000 prisoners have been taken and much booty. This includes: 102 field guns, 43 tanks, 10 armoured cars, 1 aeroplane, 20 tractors, 278 motor vehicles of various kinds including 10 anti-tank cars armed with four-barrelled anti-aircraft machine-guns, 1,170 horses, innumerable other weapons and 47 field kitchens.

    Clearing up of the ground and assembly of the booty is proceeding.

    Many thousands of Russians were left dead on the battlefield.

    The remnants of the Russian army have been driven back across the Russian frontier. There, their condition is desperate, as the Finnish ski patrol severed some time ago the branch railway which ensured their communications with headquarters and with their supply lines.

    A Finnish ski patrol which penetrated the Russian lines a few days ago found a detachment of 120 Russian soldiers frozen to death at their posts".

    I learned from Finnish military quarters that the 44th Russian Division had received orders from headquarters to capture Suomussalmi at all costs.
     
  18. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,064
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
    "A Finnish ski patrol wich penetrated the Russian lines a few days ago found a detachment of 120 Russian soldiers frozen to death at their posts".

    DAM!
     
  19. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    #20 Juha, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
    Now 44.Div was considered to be a good div and was very well armed, for ex it have had under its command 44 tanks, mostly T-26s, but it lacked much of winter gear and seems to have had motivation problems. Also it had not been mentally ready to forest fighting which is brutal short range fighting. So div was too passive and too road bound. That was a bit unusual, usually also Soviet troops tried to outflank Finnish positions by marching through forests to dominating features near the few roads or to important crossroads.

    Finns officially got among others 29 A/T guns, 14 AAmgs, 85 field guns, 43 tanks, 10 armoured cars.

    According to 44. Div HQ the div lost among others 12 four barrel AAmgs, 30 45mm A/T guns, 38 76mm field guns, 17 122mm howitzers and 14 82mm mortars and unspecific number of tanks.

    Juha
     
Loading...

Share This Page