Muslims in Space: You Can't Hear Them Scream

Discussion in 'Old Threads' started by Matt308, May 1, 2007.

  1. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Malaysia Creates Religious Guidelines for Muslim Astronauts

    KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Muslim-majority Malaysia's first astronaut will get guidelines allowing flexibility in praying in zero gravity and eating space meals under Islamic rules, the country space chief said Monday.

    The government-prepared advice is for a Malaysian joining a Russian scientific mission on the International Space Station in October, Malaysia's National Space Agency chief Mazlan Othman told The Associated Press.

    Officials have previously said an Islamic code of conduct in space is necessary because few Muslims have embarked on such expeditions, and there have been no standardized guidelines for them.

    Malaysia's two finalists for the voyage, Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor and Faiz Khaleed, are now training in Moscow. They were selected from more than 10,000 candidates.

    Malaysia held a forum for Islamic scholars in April 2006 to discuss problems Muslim space travelers might face, such as pinpointing the Saudi holy city of Mecca, which Muslims are expected face when they pray five times a day.

    The guideline booklet, published this month, says the direction should be determined "according to the capability" of the astronaut.

    Those in space during the holy fasting month of Ramadan — when Muslims are required to go without food or water from sunrise to sunset — can choose to fast then or to make up for it when they return, the booklet says.

    The first Malaysian astronaut's stint will likely overlap with Ramadan, which starts in mid-September this year.

    If Muslim astronauts doubt whether a meal is halal, or prepared according to Islamic rules, they "should consume it only to the extent of restraining hunger," the guidelines say.

    The astronaut must be dressed decently whenever in public view, which involves covering at least the portion of the body between the navel and the knees for men. Both of the finalists for Malaysia's first astronaut are males.

    Maintaining Islamic beliefs "is mandatory for Muslims in every situation, time and place," Mustafa Abdul Rahman, who heads Malaysia's state-run Department of Islamic Development, said in the guidelines.

    "Circumstances on the ISS which are different from circumstances on Earth are not an obstacle for an astronaut to fulfill a Muslim's obligations," he said.

    Other Muslims who have gone to space include Saudi Arabia's Prince Sultan bin Salman, who went aboard the U.S. shuttle Discovery in 1985, and Anousheh Ansari, an Iranian-American telecommunications entrepreneur who went to the ISS in September 2006.
     
  2. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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  3. DOUGRD

    DOUGRD Member

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    I wonder if the Ragheads will smell as much in the ISS as they do here?:twisted:
     
  4. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Hell yeah! I will be hearing that live in less than 4 weeks.

    Okay sorry I got off topic, lets get back on topic. :lol:
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    While your post does not offend me (hell I used the term as well especially when I was in the middle east), bit lets try and refrain from using the term Ragheads. We dont like people calling other derogatory names or whatever based off there herritage or home so lets not do it either to the Arabs.

    Just call them Arabs.
     
  6. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    That's my fault Adler. I set the tone by stereotyping all Muslims. And I shouldn't have. But dang if I don't get a bit upset that they don't police themselves and their crazies like the rest of the world.

    Wonder if they will have to interrupt ISS activities to allow for prayers or if EVAs will have to be bootless? Inquiring minds want to know.
     
  7. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I hear you Matt...
     
  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    the world is spending so much time on their kind it's nauseating............sorry gents but I find this whole space thing a crack up.

    let's get on with life shall we
     
  9. amrit

    amrit Member

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    I'm not sure you mean by "their kind". Whilst not being a Muslim myself, I am of a different ethnicity and religion from most of the other members. It has been interesting reading about peoples' views on Islam, especially in light of the media focus on the activities of some of them. On the whole, I think people have been asking genuine questions. For example, the above question on the stipulations on Muslims going into space seems valid - I've just been reading on the Koran's stipulations on fasting during Ramadhan and there are passgaes that state that a Muslim who is travelling may defer fasting to a later date.

    However, I do find it troublesome that some members' only comments on Islam seem to be in the negative. Maybe as an ethnic minority, I am being overly sensitive but I have often faced situations where the majority have been lumped in with the minority. My personal experience of this is the death of family members who were innocently killed after the assassination of the Indian PM Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguard.

    The fact that the majority of Sikhs had nothing to do with this act, and did not follow the politics of this fringe group didn't stop the aggressive reactions of the mobs of attacked them.

    Other everyday examples of racism based purely on the way I look, or what religion I may follow, or even mistaking me for another group altogether (which is no excuse) does make life rather difficult.

    So, whilst I applaud the forum for discussing current politics, I would just ask one thing - you can't lump everyone together.

    Cheers
    A

    p.s. I'm not accussing anyone of racism - so I hope no-one takes offence at my little contribution.
     
  10. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Your right, amrit. And, as I noted above, I am guilty of stereotyping muslims. However, I also believe that being politically correct and not discussing the origins of these stereotypes hides some truths that are important to understanding these differences and affecting change.

    I have very succinct problem with Muslims and their religion. Their religion appears to not just be "less than mainstream". Rather, their religion appears to be more than mildly oppressive as a minimum and perhaps extremely violent in basis at the other end of the spectrum. Irrespective, I am supremely dis-gusted that the supposed "Muslim moderates" do not better police their fringe fanatics that have hijacked their "peaceful" religion. Sure there are examples, but for the most part it appears that voicing intolerance with Western culture and insipid activities to change the rest of the world are more important than exhibiting intolerance of these violent offshoots of their own religion.

    Actions speak louder than words and, with the exception of some trivial lipservice, I don't see the Muslim community up in arms over either of these actions.

    Thus, my stereotyping will continue.
     
  11. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    My feelings exactly, Matt. I have no bias for the Muslim religion but when it fosters death across the earth without restraints, I'll always speak out against it.

    And don't think that its not just Arab muslims. American Muslims headed by Farakhan are just as bad with their racist garbage.
     
  12. amrit

    amrit Member

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    I can understand what you are saying Matt, but I think history shows that the majority in any do not or cannot "police" the fringe elements within them, without help and understanding. This had previously been the case in Christianity (e.g. the IRA/UVF), Sikhism (the Khalsa movement was an ultra-religious fringe group, who in many ways make current Islamic extremists look like pussies - the only reason that they didn't receive the same international coverage is because of the size of the Sikh population and the localised activities), Judaism (the West Bank settlers were perceived as an extreme by most of my Jewish friends - however, for a long time they were supported by a state apparatus - only when opinions started changing within Israel itself did some action start taking place)......and so on.

    Neither am I saying that shy away from discussing these issues due to a "fear" or whatever term one wants to use, of PCism.

    But the vast majority of Muslims live in poor, mainly ill-educated communities, whose many concern is the day-to-day survival of themselves and their families. Again, I would draw a parallel with Northern Ireland. Whilst the majority of Catholics did not actively support the IRA and their armed activities, a lot did support their basic principle of stopping discrimination against the Catholics. However, the media activelly interpreted this as overtly supporting and colluding with them. Even when Catholics actively demonstrated against IRA activities, the hype never stopped.

    It was only after the governments of both Ireland and Britain started negotiating, and supporting this "silent" majority, that the IRA saw that they didn't have the support they thought or needed to continue.

    How would this work within Islamic countries? I honestly don't know. But I think a basically starting principle should be acknowledging that the majority aren't at fault, and building up their support AGAINST the fringe minority. Look at Afghanistan - for the continuing problems, the fall of the Taliban has had a profound affect on their society. The Taliban may still be a military threat - but socially, the Afghans are trying to sort out their problems in their own way, as befits their societal needs. What did it take? Help and understanding.

    Sorry matt, this has turned into an essay :oops:
     
  13. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Yep.

    Sorry amrit, our posts collided. I was responding to Njaco.

    And you post was not an essay. A well thought out post actually.
     
  14. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    do not assume anything of what I said as being racist. Maybe I should of put Muslim maybe Islam. Ever since 9/11 we as a nation in fact the world have been so concerned about everything the Mulsims do, whether it be movements in the world, what they eat, what they believe, where they live, when they have sex and now space travel.

    let's give it a break shall we ? I hope now my point is clear. I did not come onto these forums some years ago to talk about a nation of people that has an adjenda whether anyone sees that as being truthful or not, I came on this forums to talk about a/c WW 2 and otherwise ............... I think we have all strayed
     
  15. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    I recognize its a sore point, Erich. But these discussions on issue unrelated to WWII aircraft are healthy too.

    I'm just converting the world one person at a time. :toothy5:
     
  16. amrit

    amrit Member

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    As I said in my first post, I don't believe that anyone was being racist, including you Erch :D .

    I'm the same - I joined because I liked the fact that the members here seemed "hardcore" and knowledgeable about aircraft. Actually what prompted my comments here was the (maybe spurious) link with the minor disagreement about the contributions of different countries to the air war - the whole "lumping everyone together" thing.

    Right, I'm off to read my new book - the history of 600 Squadron :)
     
  17. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Cheers, amrit.
     
  18. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    You are correct, they should not be lumped into one and I try not to. I do however base my negative comments of them by living among them for a period of time.
     
  19. DOUGRD

    DOUGRD Member

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    Well it seems that I triggered quite an interesting discussion here when I used the term "Ragheads". If I may ,I would like to supplement my initial comment with the following. First of all, my reading comprehension was definitely flawed because the original article wasn't about Arabs at all but Malaysian muslims, quite a geographical difference.
    DerAdler: you are right, they shouldn't be lumped into one group and I commend you for trying not to. But, as you said, you base you negativism on your experience. Experience is the best, though sometimes cruelest, teacher. Matt308: You need not take any blame for my comments. Your comment did not trigger my thought processes. I don't think there is any blame to be had anyway. DerAdler asked me not to use the term Raghead. I think that's fair enough. No big deal. Amrit: You made the comment" ...However, I do find it troublesome that some members only comments on Islam seem to be in the negative." You are absolutely right. Very much so especially here in the U.S. and for some pretty ugly reasons too. No, all muslims did not participate in 911 but one hell of a lot of them were dancing in the streets according to international TV including your own BBC (IF I remember correctly- If not then please pardon me) When the four US contractor security members were killed and their burned bodies were hung from that bridge I'm quite sure the folks standing around cheering were not all "fringe group" members. Nor were all the participants in Samolia "fringe group" members when they dragged the body of one of the aircrew from the downed helo (Blackhawk Down)through the streets. I'm sorry Amrit, as noble and honorable as it would be I will not be offering the olive branch to any muslims any time in the near future. Not to a bunch of hypocrites who would like us to be open minded to their beliefs and make concessions on their behalf in our counties but act like a pack of dogs when the opportunity for them to demonstrate religious tolerance is thrown back in our faces. One example I can think of is the incident where a man was almost beaten to death at a soccer match for wearing a shirt which had a cross on it which just coincidently happen to be the flag of his country. And this was in Europe correct? Not Syria or Iran? I apologize if I sound like some left wing militia member, I'm really not, matter of fact I don't even own a gun eventhough I did qualify as "Marksman" on the M-16 when I was in the Navy. I'm also a believer in the quote "I may not agree with what you are saying but I will fight to the death for your right to say it". Now I've said my piece and I bid you all a Good Night.
     
  20. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    DOUGRD its allright, no one is judging you or anything, certainly not me. I happen to agree with you. Just trying to do my j ob as a moderator and keep the peace among posters, before JOE BlOW IDIOT POSTER comes in here with his one and only post to start a bitch war among others.

    The soccer incident you are talking about actually took place in Turkey when the Swiss team played Turkey there in the Euro qualifiers. Turkey can no longer play games for a certain amount of time in Turkey so they play there games now here in Germany with no fans in the stadiums. I personally would have disqualified Turkey from playing in the Euro Cup.
     
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