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Shattered Sword.VT-3 were being escorted by Wildcats. This meant they survived long enough to launch.
Also they shot down a few Zeroes. This led to the top cover coming down. So Thatch did a good job here.
This was happening exact time frame as the dive bombing.
VT-3 were being escorted by Wildcats. This meant they survived long enough to launch.
Also they shot down a few Zeroes. This led to the top cover coming down. So Thatch did a good job here.
This was happening exact time frame as the dive bombing.
Unlikely IJN would have anything more than a first generation shipboard air search radar, and given the low profile of their carrier islands, it would have a rather short radar horizon and a consequently steeper line of sight, limiting detection range, no matter how efficient its propagation performance. Also,it would likely not have height finding capability, thus limiting early determination of the nature and altitude of the threat.Per my opening post, in addition to radar the IJN has working radios in their fighters and CIC. So, the IJN CIC is aware of the approaching HA SBD aircraft and will be directing much of its fighter force to remain at HA.
I think somebody's tail gunner got one.I don't know that the TBDs shot any Zeroes down.
The Wildcats did the shoot shoot.I don't know that the TBDs shot any Zeroes down.
I don't talk good eloquent very well either.The Wildcats did the shoot shoot.
Me no English speak good.
That was the point being made. The Yorktown strike arrived about twenty minutes after the Enterprise torpedo strike. The A6M's had time to get up to SBD altitude. As to forming up an organized and efficient CAP, I think we covered that.VT-8 attack was about 0930h
VT-6 attack was about 0945h
VT-3 attack with Wildcats was 1010-1035h
The Dauntless attack was 1022-1026h which by sheer luck was done simultaneously on Hiryu, Kaga and Akagi.
So as you can see, the VT-3 plus escorting Wildcats were attacking same time as the dive bombers. The Wildcats and the famous Thatch Weave was dragging more and more Zeroes in and the Devastators were surviving long enough to be a threat.
So as you can see, the VT-3 plus escorting Wildcats were attacking same time as the dive bombers. The Wildcats and the famous Thatch Weave was dragging more and more Zeroes in and the Devastators were surviving long enough to be a threat.
We seem to have a contradiction here. The Japanese evasive gyrations and VT3's attempts to maneuver for a hammer and anvil strike on Hiryu under her cloud cover resulted in that torpedo attack stretching out over 25 minutes, the last few of which coincided with the Dauntless attacks on the other carriers. This and the unexpected tough nut of the Thach weave so frustrated the Zero pilots that way too many of them were piling on to avenge this professional insult.The Yorktown strike arrived about twenty minutes after the Enterprise torpedo strike. The A6M's had time to get up to SBD altitude.
We seem to have a contradiction here. The Japanese evasive gyrations and VT3's attempts to maneuver for a hammer and anvil strike resulted in that torpedo attack stretching out over 25 minutes, the last few of which coincided with the Dauntless attacks. This and the unexpected tough nut of the Thach weave so frustrated the Zero pilots that way too many of them were piling on to avenge this professional insult.
CAP doctrine in IJN was complicated and somewhat sloppily executed by many Zero pilots, who hated the assignment and detested any sort of defensive missions. Their ethos, like all Japanese warrior traditions was all about attack. Midway was the first occasion in the history of Kido Butai that the CAP had to deal with a serious multi faceted existential threat, and their adherence to such doctrine as there was had grown lax. There's a discussion of these topics in "Shattered Sword".
Defense was anathema to Japanese thinking, and tended to be downplayed or even ignored. Think about damage control on ships, civil defense in their tinderbox cities, the effort put into antiaircraft weapons, the use of commerce raiders, just about anything that doesn't have the glamour of a major warship vs warship attack.Not to belittle their efforts, but it seems to me that there was a bit of glory-hunting and not as much discipline in their actions that day.
I'm no pilot, especially no combat pilot, so apply salt liberally: The absence of command-and-control facilities really harmed Japanese defensive prospects. This only made the response more disorganized -- not a good thing for fleet defense.
I can travel between time and space so in my reality, it was Hiryu that was hit first. So technically I am correct.By the way, it was Akagi, Soryu and Kaga that were stricken in the initial attack. Hiryu, who had become separated from the fleet when the SB2Us attacked her, was to the north and escaped the SBD attacks at 10:22 & 10:25 that morning.
But her time would soon be up...
Actually you were very nearly historically correct as well. As the SBDs were pushing over into their dives over the first three victims, Hiryu was under her rain cloud dodging torpedoes from VT3. Three of the TBDs got inside 800 yards to make their drops, but only one of their torpedoes ran true, missing Hiryu's stern by a gnat's hair. The lieutenant leading the pursuing Zeroes was shot down by friendly fire.I can travel between time and space so in my reality, it was Hiryu that was hit first. So technically I am correct.
I will have to remember that I have to speak about your reality time frame. So yes Soryu was hit first.