Bf109E-4, Yellow 13 of Leutnant Josef Eberle, 9th Staffel/JG54, BoB Gruppe Build...

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Something I forgot to mention, which might point to the aircraft being RED 13 afterall !
In the pics and profile, there is no III Gruppe bar, or welle (the latter being still in use with JG54 at this time). As shown, the aircraft would appear to be from I Gruppe and, like Karl, I'm fairly sure I have a pic of this crate in at least one book, where it is described as 'Red 13'. But this would be at odds with the use of the 9 Staffel badge !
However, Wubke's 'Yellow 11', of 9/JG54 (III Gruppe) is reported as lacking the III Gruppe bar, and having the fuselage cross further forward than normal, and certainly the photo I posted in my thread, in its un-cropped form, would seem to bear this out.
I have to admit, the more I look at the pics, and even allowing for the dark appearance of the number being due to film type, the more I think it could be a red number. It matches with the devil's head, and it's difficult to understand such a vast contrast being recorded (by the film used) in the shades of yellow, if, indeed, the number is yellow !
Oh dear ! I can see worms wriggling in this can !!!
 
heres the picture i mentioned from JG54_a_photographic_history_of_the_Grunherzjaege.

i'm in no way saying its the same Emil, but when i was searching my refs for pictures of yellow 13 i had to do double take !!!!!!!
sorry Dan if it causes any confusion:rolleyes:

and the more i look the more i think they are the same as the cammo stripes pattern look very similar if not the same
 

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I would say the same plane. But if you have a look at the rudder and "snakes" the difference is seen.
 
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The camo looks the same, but I think the pic was taken before the yellow tip of the rudder and wingtips were added....

In the top pic, compare the spinner color, the 13 and the badge.... Correct me if Im wrong, but the spinner, 13 and the background on the badge seem to be the same color...
 
i still think they are the same kite seems like the rudder looks like it has the yellow triangle painted on the top hiding some of the stripes in that area in the later picture of it bellied in.

i agree though Dan all three colours look the same shade
 
If the rudder tip would be yellow painted the area had the same tonality like the spinner and the background of the emblem. But it is light and looks like the RLM65 on sides. . .
 

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The aircraft is the same one, as the camouflage pattern is identical. The picture taken in Holland is before the yellow was applied to wings and rudder, so before mid August. The early form of the use of yellow included a segment on the top of the rudder, and this is clear in the pics of the belly-landed aircraft.
I would say that the '13' is definitely not yellow, as the tones don't match the wing / tail markings, and look too dark given the other tones in the pics. The tones do, however, match the red in the devil's head, and the spinn er could very well be red also. I would say that it is 'Red 13', and not 'Yellow 13' as has been published (noter one caption states 'Yellow 3' - a typo, or the wrong pic??!!).
The question is, why is it 'Red 13', when other 9 Staffel aircraft, such as Wubke's, definitely had yellow numbers? Red, or Black numbers would normally be the first Staffel of the Gruppe ( 1 Staffel, 4 Staffel, 7 Staffel), so it's puzzling.
 
Are there any pics of any other 9/JG54 crates from the same time period that we can compare with??? There was more than 1 plane assigned to 9th Staffel.... Theres gotta be atleast another pic somewhere...

I cannot believe that we are discovering the truth of this matter after all these years Terry... What about the English report concerning this crashed aircraft, dont they mention whether it was yellow or red??? Maybe the book telling us its red 13 was in error, just like the other pic stating it was yellow 3....

Sh!t, why do I pic the hard ones......
 
A good choice though Dan, glad you are back in man...Me I think it is Yellow 13, the variation in tonal values of the "yellow(s) is odd...just maybe it's RLM 04 and 27....don't recall JG54 using white at all!
 
a few more from the Jagdwaffe series and ospreys JG54 book, hope they help.
i must admit the yellow in all of these pictures looks quite dark, so your subject may well be yellow after all
 

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Although the colour in 'Yellow 13' looks more like red, I'd go with the general opinion over the years that it is yellow. I can't see why only one aircraft from the Staffel would have a red number. I think the anomaly must be the use of the distemper paint for the yellow on the wingtips etc. There's a possibility they were white, as used, for example, by JG3 and JG53, but the tones suggest a 'weaker' yellow.
All the pics I've seen of this unit show what appears to be yellow numbers, although some do look dark. They're still yellow though, when evaluating the tones. The one I'm doing, Wubke's 'Yellow 11', is definetely yellow, see the attached pic. One thing to note, that many didn't carry the III Gruppe welle, which was still in use by this Geschwader, even though replaced by the vertical bar.
 

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Intersting. If other Staffeln used white, then 9 Staffel would probably heave done so also. That would account for the difference in tones. Although the tone looks diferent to the white in the fuselage cross, this my be due to it being distemper over another colour.
It's easier for an error to be made in stating the wing-tip colur, than confusing the yellow with red.It's possible that this is something which has just carried on, where one author said they were yellow, just assuming it was, being the most common colour,and other researchers / authors have just followed suit.
 

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