Bf109E-4, Yellow 13 of Leutnant Josef Eberle, 9th Staffel/JG54, BoB Gruppe Build...

Discussion in '#7 Battle of Britain' started by lesofprimus, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Username: LesOfPrimus
    First name: Dan
    Category: Non-Competeing Judge
    Scale: 1:32
    Manufacturer: Eduard
    Model Type: Messerschmitt Bf109E-4
    Details: Yellow 13 of 9th Staffel JG54, crash landed August 12th, 1940 in France
    Aircraft Assignment: Leutnant Josef Eberle
    Accessories: Eduard Photoetch Interior and Extrerior Sprues
    Decals: Kit supplied

    My entry into this most excellent Gruppe Build is Yellow 13, flown by Lt Josef Eberle of 9./JG54 during the Battle of Britain, crach landed in France on August 12th, 1940... Eventually shot down and killed on October 9th, 1940.... The paint scheme is one of the most sexy and appealing of the E-4 series, and Im looking forward to this...

    Definatly need more ref pics of the same unit/same time frame, or even additional pics of Yellow 13.... I did a thoughough search and this is all that I have found...
     

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  2. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff Dan. Nice to see you back at it.
     
  3. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    nice one Dan, i'll have a look through my stuff to see if i can turn anything up in the next couple of days
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #4 Wurger, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    Great return Bud... Can't wait to see you in action. :D
     
  5. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Great stuff Dan-boy! Glad to see back in the thick of things.... ;) Can't wait to see this one come to life Brother, thinking of your other excellent builds!

    I knew that you were gonna do this crate, so I'll do mine offside...:lol: Good luck man! :thumbright:
     

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  6. Vic Balshaw

    Vic Balshaw Well-Known Member

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    Good one Dan, what a return subject, nice to have you back.
     
  7. Wildcat

    Wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Nice choice Dan. No doubt you'll make an excellent model out of it.
     
  8. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Thanks guys, appreciate the comments...

    There appears to be some discrepancies concerning the yellow wongtips and flash ontop of the rudder.... Cant seem tind confirmation on this except with the 2 crash landed pics up above, and to me, it seems like there is NO yellow in these areas...

    Can someone corroborate this for me??? If the spinner is yellow, look at the wingtips and rudder and tell me what u see....
     
  9. ozhawk40

    ozhawk40 Active Member

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    Nice one Dan. 8)
     
  10. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Agree Brother! Looking at the colour of the '13', I think that you'd see the yellow wingtips, right?
     
  11. 109ROAMING

    109ROAMING Active Member

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    Nice build Dan 8)
     
  12. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Sort of does look yellow Dan. Even though its black and white I can definitely see a light color on the wingtips. As for the rudder, its a bit tougher to see but I say yes to all the areas. It seems like its yellow in the pics.
     
  13. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    same pic you already posted Dan but looks a little clearer maybe ????? from osprey's JG54.
    all i could find i'm afraid sorry
     

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  14. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    A bit more clearer there old boy! :thumbright:
     
  15. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Nice choice, and a good kit. Should look good alongside it's stable mate 'Yellow 11', the E3 I'm doing.
    The pics are a bit tricky, as the wing tips and the tip of the rudder and tailplanes appear to be in a lighter colour, probably yellow. Although the spinner shows a contrast to the back plate, and seems to match the 'Yellow 13' number, it could be Schwargrun, the original colour, as seen on 'Yellow 11'. The use of the yellow (and white) tactical markings was just starting around the time depicted and, bearing in mind these were done using a washable, distemper - type paint, the tonal difference in B&W pics would show, and it's logical these would look lighter than the 'real' paint of the fuselage numbers.
    I would go for yellow tips to all. It is also possibel, but can't be confirmed form the pics, that the upper surface of the main wings was still in RLM 70/71, as was 'Yellow11', which were not repainted when the fuselage spine and tailplanes had the 'new' scheme of RLM 71 /02 applied. Personally, I'd go for the 71/02, as the earlier scheme mentioned was on an E3, an older machine, and it's probable that the E4 had a factory finish of the 'new' colours ( or at least re-painted at a MU, not in the field).
    I notice that whoever produced the 'skin' has changed history, placing the Battle of Britain in 1941 .......
     
  16. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Thanks Karl and Terry....

    Im alittle bit lost here on the yellow fellas.... The directions say the spinner is RLM04... From the pics, the 13 color matches the spinner... If u look closely at the painting instructions, it shows the portside yellow flash on the top rudder to be RLM04 as well, but the starboard side says RLM27, as well as the yellow tips......

    WTF is that about???

    Anyway, back to the pic, if infact the spinner and the 13 are RLM04, why is there no discernable darker coloration on the wingtips and rudder... RLM27 and 04 are not that far apart on the color chart, so.....

    What am I missing Terry??? If I look at the the pic Karl re-scanned for me, these areas in question look like theyre slightly lighter than the RLM76 blue, not darker as the RLM04 shows on the belly landed pic......
     
  17. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Sweet, I'm really looking forward to this build.
     
  18. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    This could get very contentious, as I might be about to throw 70 years of history down the drain !
    That '13' could be red !!!!!
    OK, it's 99% certain it isn't, as we know that 9 Staffel used yellow numbers - so relax !
    The thing is, if you look at the '13', then look at the devil's head on the shield, the tones are very similar. The shield itself is yellow, which doesn't match any of the other tones in question.
    But, it would seem that the original photo was taken with ortho film, or printed on the wrong grade of paper, which accounts for the darker appearance of the 'Yellow 13'. Although the spinner would almost certainly be the same colour as the wing tips, tailplane tips and the segment on the rudder tip, it looks, again, a different tone to the others. There's a possibilty that it is still in the original Schwarzgrun factory finish, although unlikely, especially as there is a distinct contrast between the spinner and the back plate. As it also looks to be the same, or similar tone to the '13', I'd say it is yellow.
    The other areas, in this JG, should be yellow also. They don't look to be white, the other colour used for this tactical recce marking, as they show as a different tone to the white in the Balkencruez.
    The only explanation I can offer is the effects of 'anomolous reflection', which would be increased by the use of ortho film.
    In brief, this is the effect of a colour being recorded, by the film, in a shade (or tone) different to what is percieved by the human eye, and is due to the reflected wavelenght(s) of colours 'clashing' with the wavelength of the films' sensitivity to ceratin colours.
    Add to this the fact that the (presumed) yellow on the wings etc is fresh paint, and the strong possibility that the spinner is 'real' paint, instead of the distemper-type, as they often were, then this could also have an effect on what is recorded by the film.
    Where actual colours are quoted in descriptions of particular aircraft, this is often drawn from known information from the unit concerned, or, in the case of aircraft brought down in Britain during the BoB (and after), from the Crash Reports.
    Personally, I'd go with the information as shown in the extract from the Jagwaffe series posted earlier, and use the yellow for the spinner, wingtips etc., as this is more likely to be correct, and ties-in with other descriptions elsewhere, and the photo evidence.
     
  19. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Why not paint the machine as it would have looked like before mid-August '40, when they started to use those yellow recognition markings, that's what I'll do with my birds....
     
  20. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Terry might be right here a bit later i will post a pic which i thought was your crate Dan but labeled as red 13
     
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