B-17engineer
Colonel
No I know I just was curious...
BoB Group Build Q and A
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The black 14 was most probably of Erg. Gr. JG54. This Messer was the Jabo variant of bf109E-4.What means it was Bf109E-4/B.Possible she was painted with RLM71/02/65 with yellow engine cowling with mottling of RLM70 covering most of the top cover of the engine as well. Previously the aircraft had belonged to JG1.
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B-17engineer
Colonel
Oh so the color that the mottling is done is RLM 65 or 02?
B-17engineer
Colonel
Sorry I typed that wrong, I meant the color the mottling is done ON ......boy that made me sound like an idiot 
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Niiiice work Wojtek!
....and I agree with the same gentleman, you did NOT sound like an idiot H!
....and I agree with the same gentleman, you did NOT sound like an idiot H!
B-17engineer
Colonel
Oh well he said clearly RLM 70 was mottling and then it sounded like I asked
So the color reaching up the side is the RLM 65 or 02
So the color reaching up the side is the RLM 65 or 02
Harry the camo scheme was RLM65 on undersides and sides almost up to the fuselage top. If you have a close up look at the top of the fuselage you will notice a darker strip.The strip consists of two tonalities. The first one goes from the cockpit conopy to the German cross.It was the RLM71. Then the strip becomes lighter and runs up to one section of the fuselage behind the cross. It was RLM02. And then it becomes darker again going to the fin.It's RLM71 again.
B-17engineer
Colonel
Thanks mate!
- Thread starter
- #32
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Just going back to the question on cockpit colours on the Bf109E series. This is normally stated as RLM 02, the 'usual' interior colour for most Luftwaffe aircraft of the period. However, the preserved (flying) example in Canada, which I have interior shots of, and the genuine BoB survivor in the RAF Museum, both show a colour which is neither RLM 02 or RLM 66. This is a grey shade in between both of the above; lighter than RLM66, and not as light, or as green-toned, as RLM02.
As far as I know, the colour inside the RAF Museum example is original, and this matches very well with the tones seen in B&W period pics of the BoB. (and does when compared from a recent B&W photo too.)
Compare the interior colour (in the period pics) with areas of RLM02 visible in the same pics and, even allowing for variations in lighting, the interior still looks a different tone/shade.
I tend to use a mix (for 109Es, and the Ju88 ) which is nearer RLM 75, and add just a touch of green.
Please note that the official colour very well might be RLM 02, but it should also be noted that this colour has been seen in different shades, just as 'allied' colours have, so possibly factory or batch variation, or possibly even a 'grade' of paint.
Bottom line, it's down to the modeller to decide !
Edit: where the h*ll did that stupid smiley come from ?!!
As far as I know, the colour inside the RAF Museum example is original, and this matches very well with the tones seen in B&W period pics of the BoB. (and does when compared from a recent B&W photo too.)
Compare the interior colour (in the period pics) with areas of RLM02 visible in the same pics and, even allowing for variations in lighting, the interior still looks a different tone/shade.
I tend to use a mix (for 109Es, and the Ju88 ) which is nearer RLM 75, and add just a touch of green.
Please note that the official colour very well might be RLM 02, but it should also be noted that this colour has been seen in different shades, just as 'allied' colours have, so possibly factory or batch variation, or possibly even a 'grade' of paint.
Bottom line, it's down to the modeller to decide !
Edit: where the h*ll did that stupid smiley come from ?!!
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B-17engineer
Colonel
Oh so now the smiley's we use are stupid?
B-17engineer
Colonel
- Thread starter
- #35
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Difficult to tell from swatches on the screen H, but I'd say in between the last one (RLM 75 ?) and the middle one.
If you look at the RLM 02 used as a camouflage colour, and that used for interior colours, the latter looks a lot more grey. Now this might just be the effect of smaller areas making the paint colour look more concentrated, but there is a difference visually, and allowing for the 'scale effect, this will look even more different on a model.
If you look at the RLM 02 used as a camouflage colour, and that used for interior colours, the latter looks a lot more grey. Now this might just be the effect of smaller areas making the paint colour look more concentrated, but there is a difference visually, and allowing for the 'scale effect, this will look even more different on a model.
B-17engineer
Colonel
Alright thanks T!
- Thread starter
- #37
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
You're welcome.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Here's a question that's been confusing me the last couple of days....
How come that BC isn't included in the BoB? I've always thought that they were involved as much as FC....or am I p*ssing in headwind?
How come that BC isn't included in the BoB? I've always thought that they were involved as much as FC....or am I p*ssing in headwind?
- Thread starter
- #39
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Simple answer is that the Battle of Britain wa just that - a battle to defend the British Isles, mainly the south of England. As such, this fell to Fighter Command to provide the defence, in the form of fighter squadrons to combat the attacking bombers, and attempt to ward off the Luftwaffe fighters defending these bombers.
As Bomber Command were equipped with ...er... bombers, these were of no use in the defence. This Command was, however, engaged in attacking the Channel ports on the French and Belgian coast, where the invasion barges etc were gathering, as well as night (and some daylight) raids deeper into enemy occupied territory, and Germany itself. Although these operations took part during the course of the Battle, they are not, and can not be, considered part of the battle, being a separate campaign which was part of the overall strategic planning (such as it was) of the bombing offensive, which continued throught the war.
As Bomber Command did not take part in the direct actions against the Luftwaffe, over the Channerl and the British Isles, they can not be considered to have been part of the Battle. However, for the purposes of recording the history of the period, the Order of Battle of Bomber Command is normally included in books dealing with the Battle.
A poor comparison could be that the Royal Navy were involved in the Battle of Berlin - they were active at the same time, but not over Berlin !
As Bomber Command were equipped with ...er... bombers, these were of no use in the defence. This Command was, however, engaged in attacking the Channel ports on the French and Belgian coast, where the invasion barges etc were gathering, as well as night (and some daylight) raids deeper into enemy occupied territory, and Germany itself. Although these operations took part during the course of the Battle, they are not, and can not be, considered part of the battle, being a separate campaign which was part of the overall strategic planning (such as it was) of the bombing offensive, which continued throught the war.
As Bomber Command did not take part in the direct actions against the Luftwaffe, over the Channerl and the British Isles, they can not be considered to have been part of the Battle. However, for the purposes of recording the history of the period, the Order of Battle of Bomber Command is normally included in books dealing with the Battle.
A poor comparison could be that the Royal Navy were involved in the Battle of Berlin - they were active at the same time, but not over Berlin !
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Much obliged old boy! Just of curiousity that I had to ask.... 
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