BoB Group Build Q and A

[Airframes]

There's some really fantastic unused footage, keeps cropping up in various movies, TV shows, documentaries etc. Pity it can't all be released as a compilation DVD. The photography was excellent, and no chance of doing anything similar today.
I had the book on how the film was made, back in 1969, and loaned it to my brother - must ask him if he's still got it ! there was some good 'stills' in it, and descriptions of some of the hairy moments during filming !!

 

[N4521U]

Since this GB finishes on November 30...

If I can find, with any help at all from the members here, the code letter for Hurricane L1715, it would be GN*? from 249 squadron flown by Sgt H.J. Davidson during the BoB, I would be tempted to try and finish a 1/48th kit for the GB!

If anyone has Any pictures at all from this period, look at the serial number of the aircraft if they are visible, that's a tall ask, perhaps we can narrow this down. This was an aircraft that crash landed, Henry survived, the plane was repaired and assigned to another squadron. It crashed again in 1944 and was written off. H.J. was a BoB ace, went on to be the first to catapult a Hurricat.

I am looking for Any code for Any plane Henry Davidson flew. I don't know of any site that has S/N to code letter references for the Hurricanes of 149 Sqdn. It's a personal thing, namesake Davidson.

Cheers, Bill

 

[tail end charlie]

Thanks Terry, "Blennem" it is. I never thought there's be any question about the pronunciation of Beaufighter. I guess, since half of Canada either speaks French or has learned it in highschool precludes anything other than "Bow-fighter" here.

Crimea

I found this old post of yours, the blenheim was named after a stately house which was named after a battle, which was near a village called blindheim in South Germany/Austria. I think its extremely ironic that Winston Churchill was born in a house named after a battle won by his ancestor fighting against the french with an Ally named Prince Eugen of Savoy who had a german heavy cruiser named after him. I think you would have to explore austrian dialects to find how it should be pronounced.

The Battle of Blenheim (referred to in some countries as the Second Battle of Höchstädt), fought on 13 August 1704, was a major battle of the War of the Spanish Succession.[1] Louis XIV of France sought to knock Emperor Leopold out of the war by seizing Vienna, the Habsburg capital, and gain a favourable peace settlement. The dangers to Vienna were considerable: the Elector of Bavaria and Marshal Marsin's forces in Bavaria threatened from the west, and Marshal Vendôme's large army in northern Italy posed a serious danger with a potential offensive through the Brenner Pass. Vienna was also under pressure from Rákóczi's Hungarian revolt from its eastern approaches. Realising the danger, the Duke of Marlborough resolved to alleviate the peril to Vienna by marching his forces south from Bedburg and help maintain Emperor Leopold within the Grand Alliance.
A combination of deception and brilliant administration – designed to conceal his true destination from friend and foe alike – enabled Marlborough to march 250 miles (400 km) unhindered from the Low Countries to the River Danube in five weeks. After securing Donauwörth on the Danube, Marlborough sought to engage the Elector's and Marsin's army before Marshal Tallard could bring reinforcements through the Black Forest. However, with the Franco-Bavarian commanders reluctant to fight until their numbers were deemed sufficient, the Duke enacted a policy of plundering in Bavaria designed to force the issue. The tactic proved unsuccessful, but when Tallard arrived to bolster the Elector's army, and Prince Eugene arrived with reinforcements for the Allies, the two armies finally met on the banks of the Danube in and around the small village of Blindheim.

 

[Crimea_River]

Wow, sorry I asked!

The Germanic pronunciation of "blindheim" would no doubt have used the "hime" sounding suffix. The "blind" prefix would have been pronounce with a short i sound liked in "billed". As the plane was British, I was looking for the commonly used modern pronunciation.

Thanks for the background though.

 

[tail end charlie]

Wow, sorry I asked!

The Germanic pronunciation of "blindheim" would no doubt have used the "hime" sounding suffix. The "blind" prefix would have been pronounce with a short i sound liked in "billed". As the plane was British, I was looking for the commonly used modern pronunciation.

Thanks for the background though.

Crimea

I have discussed this battle with Germans and they all know it as Hochstat, those that know of Blenheim palace think its an English place name, so the pronunciation is purely as it is in English which has a shorter vovel sound, beaufighter came from beaufort which is used all over europe, the "beau" same as in french with fighter tagged on the end.

 

[antoni]

Blenheim is, or was, I think, the French name for Blindheim, like Aix-la-Chaple/Aachen As it was the supposed tradition to name bombers after towns the Bristol Blenheim was in was named after the place Blenheim not the eponymous battle. There may some sophistry at work, but that's the way is goes.

There may be Beauforts all over Europe but in England it is the surname of the descendents of John of Gaunt and his mistress Katharine Swynford. The sons born out of wedlock were later legitimised by the Pope and given the surname Beaufort which is derived from a castle in Campagne (now Montmorency-Beaufort) that was a possession of John of Gaunt. Later Charles II created the title Duke of Beaufort for Henry Somerset, 3rd Marquess of Worcester, a descendant of Charles Somerset, 1st Earl of Worcester, illegitimate son of Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset, a Lancastrian leader in the Wars of the Roses. The Duke is probably best known these days for the Beaufort Hunt in Gloucestershire. There is a place in Wales called Beaufort, famous for its iron works built on land leased from the Duke of Beaufort. Probably more sophistry but it allows the aircraft to adopt that name.

 

[dirkpitt289]

WHAT?!!! You've not seen the movie before ! Astounding ! I guess the actor you mean is probably Kenneth More, playing the part of the Station Commander (Section Officer Harvey's boss). He is also very well know for his role as Douglas Bader in 'Reach for the Sky'.
!

Yes, Keith More. I never heard of reach for the sky either. If you think its a good flick I'll search it out. You got to remember I live it the States so some of theses movies never really make it here. I just found another British war movie that looks pretty good. 633 Squadron. i just got it and skipped through it. Looks good. I already found one actor that I recognize from the Great escape. If there are other classics like this that I should see, let me know and I'll see if i can find them.

 

[Wayne Little]

Reach for the Sky is a great movie....633 Squadron is another old favourite too...rather liked The One that got away with Hardy Kruger as well....

 

[Airframes]

Dirk, "Reach for the Sky" is the story of Douglas Bader, based on the book of the same title by Paul Brickhill. It was one of a number of typically British 'patriotic' movies, made in the 1950s, just about the time that Britain could finally start to really recover from the physical and economic effects of WW2 and, in some ways, these were, if not a 'thank you' to the servicemen and women, then at least a reminder, and in many ways an 'eye opener', of what had be done and achieved.
There were quite a few in a similar vein, covering virtually all aspects of the war, mainly in Europe, as it was 'closest to home'.
Others in the 'air war' genre are 'Angels One Five', dealing with the BoB, 'Malta Story', 'The Dam Busters', one mentioned by Wayne, 'The One that Got Away', telling the story of Franz von Werra and quite a few more I can't remember the titles of at the moment.
'633 Squadron' is one of those early 1960s movies which made a big hit and has become a classic, with the title music being another classic 'war themes' hit, and is a fictitious story based on a number of typical events carried out by Mosquitos during WW2. Although by today's standards the use of models in some sequences is rather 'ropey' to say the least, the flying and crash-landing sequences are well done - and oh, if those Mossies were still airworthy today !
One thing you will quickly notice in the 1950s B&W air war movies is the use of whatever Spitfire or Hurricane was available - with low-back MkXVI Spits fighting the BoB, and Hurricanes in a squadron with mixed code letters!

 

[Crimea_River]

Boy do I remember 633 Squadron and laughing out loud at those models hitting the cliffs. Great movie otherwise if you like Mosquitos - and who doesn't?!

 

[T Bolt]

How's the judging going on the BoB Group Build?

 

[Airframes]

Good question. Far as I know, all the scores were submitted some time ago - within days of the GB ending. Dan had them chased up, and I presume forwarded to Eric. I'll ask him if he received them.

 

[imalko]

Think it's about time to finally finish that He 111 model of mine...

 

[Crimea_River]

I'll say!