BoB Group Build Q and A

[Airframes]

No problem old chap .... and it's your round !

 

[Lucky13]

Pint and dram is sitting there in front you sport.....

 

[N4521U]

OK, if you been reading any of my threads, I just can't seem to Finish anything. So, my plan is, to do something for the BoB GB! I need something I HAVE to friggin FINISH.

But, this late into the build I need something with little real detail, so it's the Walrus I will build. Now, I can get the kit. However I need some help with BoB units, and colour (color) schemes, and perhaps detail pictures.

Anyone? Cheers, Bill

 

[T Bolt]

Thanks Terry. I'll have to think on it a little but right now I'm thinking maybe RLM 75 lightened somewhat with maybe a touch of green, then a dark wash.

 

[Airframes]

Bill, as mentioned in my PM, I've just discovered that the Walrus did not enter RAF service until October 1941 - one year after the BoB !! I had assumed that, as they were already in service as shipboard aircraft with the Royal Navy, that they were in RAF service too. Many apologies.
Before receiving the Walrus, those squadrons allocated to Air Sea Rescue duties (still in its infancy in 1940), were equipped with the Westland Lysander, and worked in co-operation with the RAF High Speed launches, and with the R.N.L.I. boats.
I'd have to check if used in 1940 for similar duties, but the Lockheed Hudson certainly was used for ASR work later in the war.
There was, and possibly still is, an Airfix 1/72nd scale kit of an RAF launch - that would certainly provide a 'different' entry into th GB !!

 

[N4521U]

Terry, I am causing too much trouble for a silly build. In my own searching I found this page.

Aircraft of the Battle of Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look thru this and see what you understand from it. Does it look to you like there were no air-sea-rescue planes to receive recognition?

Supermarine Walrus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And this page about the Walrus being in service from 1936, or the Seagull, the precurser to the Walrus.

So confusing. Bill

 

[N4521U]

And then I found THIS from a search. So there is No air sea rescue planes except for the Lysander! and HSL's.

Air-sea rescue
One of the biggest oversights of the entire system was the lack of a proper air-sea rescue organisation. The RAF had started organising a system in 1940 with High Speed Launches (HSLs) based on flying boat bases and at a number of overseas locations, but it was still believed that the amount of cross-Channel traffic meant that there was no need for a rescue service to cover these areas. Downed pilots and aircrew, it was hoped, would be picked up by any boats or ships which happened to be passing by. Otherwise the local life boat would be alerted, assuming someone had seen the pilot going into the water.[121]

RAF aircrew were issued with a life jacket, nicknamed the "Mae West" but in 1940 it still required manual inflation, which was almost impossible for someone who was injured or in shock. The waters of the English Channel and Dover Straits are cold, even in the middle of summer, and clothing issued to RAF aircrew did little to insulate them against these freezing conditions. A conference in 1939 had placed air-sea rescue under Coastal Command. Because a number of pilots had been lost at sea during the "Channel Battle", on 22 August, control of RAF rescue launches was passed to the local naval authorities and 12 Lysanders were given to Fighter Command to help look for pilots at sea. In all some 200 pilots and aircrew were lost at sea during the battle. No proper air-sea rescue service was formed until 1941.[84]

Pilots must have been deathly afraid of ditching, with good reason. Bill

 

[Lucky13]

WOW!

 

[antoni]

i have a question when did 25 Sqn get there first beaufighters am i right in thinking it was september 1940 also even though they were nightfighters am i correct in believing they were painted in the standard day fighter scheme

The first four Beaufighter Mk 1Fs to enter RAF service, R2056, R2070, R2072 and R2073, were sent to 25, 219, 29 and 604 Squadrons respectively. These were delivered on 2nd September 1940. A fifth was sent to 600 Squadron on 8th September. All these units were flying Blenheim Mk 1Fs and full conversion to Beaufighters took some months to achieve. During the autumn of 1940, with some day fighting still taking place during the late stages of the BoB Beaufighter Mk IFs from some of the squadrons mentioned became s familiar sight around the outskirts of London, singly or in pairs as they continued their 'working up ' period. They did not, however, participate in any of the fighting, preparing in stead for night defence using A.I. radar equipment. Very few photographs were taken of Beaufighters during this time and the majority are of 25 Squadron. Up to November 1940 all RAF fighters operating on night interception work were finished as day fighters. The all Special Night finish was authorised to be used on Beaufighters from 22nd November. This lasted until 1st October 1942 when it was replaced by all over Medium Sea Grey with a Dark Green disruptive pattern on the upper surfaces. The first Beaufighter 'in squadron service' night fighter operation was undertaken by R2057 of 29 Squadron on 17/18th September 1940. The first operational squadron was One Flight 219 Squadron. The first successful air-to-air interception by a Beaufighter was by 219 Squadron on the night 25th October but it was achieved without the assistance of AI radar. The first true radar assisted interception was achieved by John Cunningham of 604 Squadron on the night 20th November.

An early production Mk IF, R2059 ZK*A , of 25 Squadron, late summer 1940. Dark Earth/Dark Green/Sky.

 

[magnu]

Even the Luftwaffe who had a far better air sea rescue service than the RAF called the English channel, The sh1t canal, pilots who showed any reluctance for combat were accused of having channel sickness(Kanal krank)
Keith Park issued a directive prohibiting pilots from pursuing German aircraft out to sea as too many were being lost doing so.

 

[dirkpitt289]

I think I saw something about this but can't remember where. What about Coastal Command squadrons such as 235, 254, 244? Were they involved in the BoB? I believe these were Blenheim Squadrons.

 

[N4521U]

If I can find one, I may just build the BOAT! Airfix makes the Boat!

 

[vikingBerserker]

Manual inflation???? That's insane!

 

[B-17engineer]

"Blow harder!!!"

"That's what she said"

 

[Airframes]

Dirk, all the Squadrons and units/Flights which took part in the Battle of Britain, under the control of RAF Fighter Command, are listed in Part One of the 'BoB Bits Box' threads, which I posted a few weeks ago. If the unit is not listed there, it didn't take part.
All other units operational during the period of the BoB come under the same explanation as that for Bomber Command.

 

[jamierd]

if the first succesful night intercept in a Beau took place on 25 october this is within the datelines specified for this group build so i would be ok building said beau is this correct

 

[Lucky13]

So, it could be a question of '88's, '111's, '17's, '109's, '110's, '87's against the Spitfire and the Hurricane?

Off to check the list again....

 

[tonyb]

I have a couple of colour questions for u experts here -

What colour were the 'Mae Wests' that the Allied pilots wore?I have seen these done in yellow,orange and also a beige like colour.Which is correct? All the ones in the BoB movie were orange I do believe.

Exactly what is the best colour combo for the exhausts on a Hurricane?They look a reddish brown on most pics I have seen.

Cheers guys!
Tony.

 

[Lucky13]

if the first succesful night intercept in a Beau took place on 25 october this is within the datelines specified for this group build so i would be ok building said beau is this correct

As it says in Terry's 'Tiger' book, No. 74 Squadron....

For easy convenience the Battle may divided into five phases:

1. Attacks on channel convoys and ports (10th July to 7th August).
2. The offensive against coastal airfields and radar stations (8th August to 23rd August).
3. Assaults on inland airfields near London and Sector Stations (24th August to 6th September).
4. The attack on London (7th September to 30th September).
5. Fighter-bomber attacks in which the targets were of secondary importance to the main objective of drawing RAF fighters into the air (1st October to 31st October).

Going by this, I'd think so.....Mr. T?

 

[Wurger]

Edit: where the h*ll did that stupid smiley come from ?!!

Terry , as you know emoticons are available as a code that consists of a few signs. For instance "cool" is the combination of number eight and the closeing bracket. 8 + ) = cool emoticon. There are other combinations for different "faces" For example : + ) = smile , : + ( = sad .....etc. In your text you wrote ...Ju88 ) without a space between "8" and ")" signs. Therefore the emoticon has appeared. I have corrected your post.