Beer...hmmm, I'd prefer a glass of whiskey.
I'm down with that too. I do enjoy a nice scotch or irish.
Middleton Very Rare please
Coronavirus Thread
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I'm down with that too. I do enjoy a nice scotch or irish.
Middleton Very Rare please
It seems that even in 1921 people recognised that it shouldn't have been termed 'Spanish Flu"
from: The Project Gutenberg eBook of Epidemic Respiratory Disease, by Eugene L. Opie
oh, and I'll have a Glenlivet Nadurra thanks...
Dash119
Senior Airman
I have no real issue with using the geographic origin in the name of the disease. However, using the name of a country implies to some, that the people of that country are somehow complicit in the outbreak. And, once again, the origin of a virus has very little bearing on how we get through a Pandemic.
Here in the United States, there has been a substantial increase in hate crimes and hate speech perpetrated against people of Asian decent in the last few months. I have also seen and heard some of my fellow citizens ask if they could contract Covid-19 from Chinese food...
Unfortunately, in this day and age words do matter... Not for the right reason, but they matter nonetheless.
Here in the United States, there has been a substantial increase in hate crimes and hate speech perpetrated against people of Asian decent in the last few months. I have also seen and heard some of my fellow citizens ask if they could contract Covid-19 from Chinese food...
Unfortunately, in this day and age words do matter... Not for the right reason, but they matter nonetheless.
Dash119
Senior Airman
Oh, and yes make mine a Rum and Coke, a tall one...
wuzak
Captain
To be fair, I think economists have difficulty with economics, let alone medicine.
And when was the last time when a "reporter" reported anything? These days all they seem to produce is opinion, so maybe their profession should be changed to "opinionator".
The National Review?
lol
It is a politically slanted conservative mouth peace. It's on the same level as CNN, Breitbart, Fox News and Huffpost for lack reliability due to its slanted bias.
The National Review is a bias publication, but the article contained about 30 links to actual studies on the topic. A much better example of useful journalism than just another news articles that skews facts or expresses hypocritical opinions. I will channel my inner Rod Sterling here but ... picture, if you will, a society were people research topics and weigh information and data from multiple and contradictory sources and arguments to reach there own conclusions rather than following the lead of some talking head with a political agenda to push or cower to the current radical chic.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
And, due to the failure of the NSW government to quarantine the Ruby Princess cruise ship passengers most of the Tassie cases came from passengers on that ship that were told they did not need to quarantine or take any other precautions.
Had the NSW government health department been run by competent persons the Tassie infection and death toll would have been much much much lower.
If Chinese figures are to be believed (in most things I think they are full of ****) locking down Wuhan prevented the rest of China being infected until they allowed returning travelers into Beijing.
Quarantine works
Or to look at it a different way
What two countries have the poorest lockdown - Brazil and the USA
What two countries have the highest per capita death toll - Brazil and the USA
Quarantine works
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We will agree to disagree. Anyone can pick and choose studies that agree with their bias. Unless it is an independent study with no bias, it must be taken with a grain of salt.
The same can be said for any "journalistic" article that comes from a slanted source that only panders to its viewers preconceived beliefs such as the National Review.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
I hate to say it but in the present political climate in multiple countries an independent study and independent peer review are !@#$%^&* near impossible to find.
Dash119
Senior Airman
I have yet to meet the human being without bias... Isn't that part of the Human condition?
Although I am no fan of the National Review, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
No side, Right or Left, Conservative or Liberal, has a monopoly on good or bad ideas.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
100,000% correct
Dash119
Senior Airman
Of course due to my own bias, while I do not have a monopoly on good ideas, I have nearly cornered the marketplace...
I do not disagree with you.
They can be found, people just have to put their bias aside and actually look for them.
It's why I laugh on facebook every time I read somebody post some conspiracy theory BS and say they "researched" it.
wuzak
Captain
One of the links that support the idea that lockdown was ineffective:
Let us look at Sweden:
Data from: Coronavirus Update (Live): 9,044,563 Cases and 470,665 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
Coronavirus Cases: 56,043 (Oz: 7,461; NZ: 1,511)
Active Cases: N/A (Oz: 463; NZ 7*)
Deaths: 5,053 (Oz: 102; NZ: 22)
Cases/1m population: 5,550 (Oz: 293; NZ: 302)
Deaths/1m populations: 500 (Oz: 4; NZ: 4)
Note that Sweden has ~40% of Australia's population and yet some days the number of deaths from Covid 19 exceed the total from Australia.
And Sweden has ~2 times the population of New Zealand, yet on some days the deaths exceed 5 times the total number of deaths in New Zealand.
I don't think Sweden is a good example against the efficacy of lockdown.
Other examples:
Not sure these countries are the best examples of lockdown, since all seem to have been quite late in acting, well after the virus took hold. The UK even held the policy, initially, of letting the virus spread.
That report may have been premature, as several states are no experiencing record numbers.
And I believe that these two states never really did the lock down.
The trends seem pretty clear.
* New Zealand had 0 active cases until they imported a couple.
Attachments
I think anyone arguing that lockdown is not efficient is not thinking clearly.
I think a much more interesting debate is how strict this lockdown has to be. So at what point do extra measurements stop being significant.
For instance The Netherlands and Belgium are demographically quite similar. The pandemic reached these countries almost simultaneously. While the Belgians has a very strict lockdown, we had slightly less so. Still in both countries the curve seems to be the same. The number of ICU patients started to decline at about the same moment with the same rate. Based on that, admittedly single, example, one could argue that the extra measures taken by the Belgians were not significant. One could argue that the NL did it slightly better as the little bit more freedom lessened the mental burden for the population.
On the other hand, both countries fared better than Brazil, so both lockdowns seem to be more efficient than doing nothing.
Admittedly this is pure anecdotal evidence, so maybe these observations should be taken with a grain of salt.
One remark about the efficiency of the New Zealand lockdown is that NZ are islands in the middle of a big ocean, while European countries are not. So more has to be considered when comparing countries at how well they did.
I think a much more interesting debate is how strict this lockdown has to be. So at what point do extra measurements stop being significant.
For instance The Netherlands and Belgium are demographically quite similar. The pandemic reached these countries almost simultaneously. While the Belgians has a very strict lockdown, we had slightly less so. Still in both countries the curve seems to be the same. The number of ICU patients started to decline at about the same moment with the same rate. Based on that, admittedly single, example, one could argue that the extra measures taken by the Belgians were not significant. One could argue that the NL did it slightly better as the little bit more freedom lessened the mental burden for the population.
On the other hand, both countries fared better than Brazil, so both lockdowns seem to be more efficient than doing nothing.
Admittedly this is pure anecdotal evidence, so maybe these observations should be taken with a grain of salt.
One remark about the efficiency of the New Zealand lockdown is that NZ are islands in the middle of a big ocean, while European countries are not. So more has to be considered when comparing countries at how well they did.
Nothing to disagree with here in my opinion. Well said, and I agree.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
Today's figures from the WHO show that the two countries with the least effective lockdowns set new records today. Think how bad it would be if the whole US was as bad as states like Florida. And how much lower it would be if these "its only a flu" states had locked down like NY did.
To quote
The World Health Organization (WHO) has reported the largest single-day increase in coronavirus cases since the start of the pandemic, with more than 183,000 new cases detected in the past 24 hours.
The UN health agency said Brazil led the way with 54,771 cases tallied, while the US was next at 36,617.
To quote
The World Health Organization (WHO) has reported the largest single-day increase in coronavirus cases since the start of the pandemic, with more than 183,000 new cases detected in the past 24 hours.
The UN health agency said Brazil led the way with 54,771 cases tallied, while the US was next at 36,617.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Since we're all indulging in some alcoholic libations, I'll have some spiced rum please....
There's been a long while since Sweden was a pioneering country in anything....
There's a chance when it comes to our government though, which more often than not, takes stupid to a new level....with the media being the good little....well, you know, that's pioneering, right?
You can always ask my parents what they think about the Clown Academy, you'll be embarrassed with their use of language! Since they're not members, the mods here would put me on time out, for their crime!
As for the different names of the virus, I've got no problems calling it C-19, Co Virus, Ch Virus or W Virus, neither am I blaming certain parties for it, except those that are actually responsible for this, I'm more level headed than that, unfortunately....some people need to be rebooted, reset for their, again....stupidity, I mean....seriously!?
Is it just me who wonder, is progressive just a posh name for stupid sometimes?
Man, I need a massive BBQ....
There's been a long while since Sweden was a pioneering country in anything....
There's a chance when it comes to our government though, which more often than not, takes stupid to a new level....with the media being the good little....well, you know, that's pioneering, right?
You can always ask my parents what they think about the Clown Academy, you'll be embarrassed with their use of language! Since they're not members, the mods here would put me on time out, for their crime!
As for the different names of the virus, I've got no problems calling it C-19, Co Virus, Ch Virus or W Virus, neither am I blaming certain parties for it, except those that are actually responsible for this, I'm more level headed than that, unfortunately....some people need to be rebooted, reset for their, again....stupidity, I mean....seriously!?
Is it just me who wonder, is progressive just a posh name for stupid sometimes?
Man, I need a massive BBQ....
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