Coronavirus Thread

[XBe02Drvr]

The attached video from an unknown source explains many of the minor factors quite accurately but predates Covid-19. I do not think it violates the politics ban but if it does will the mods please remove it. I suspect it is from a movie, but I don't know which one.

In this highly charged atmosphere, everything is political, so there's no escaping it. Even the history we all cherish is merely politics in the past tense, as we view it through ideology tinted lenses. What this video clip focusses on is the corrosion of a great society from within, the inevitable result of the demonization of any and all opposition as evil, not simply misguided.
It didn't use to be this way. In the America of my youth, people could still agree to disagree, and invite each other over for dinner and swim in each other's pools. Politics was politics, manners were manners, and neighbors were neighbors. Today your neighbors all think like you and if you choose to socialize on the "other side" it's "fraternizing with the enemy". Abe Lincoln said it best: "A house divided against itself cannot stand".
My next door neighbor is a racist redneck, and every time I have to speak with him I find myself gritting my teeth, which makes it hard to smile and be friendly. Too bad, he's got the makings of a nice guy, as long as you're white, and not Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or "a libtard".
Unity, wherefore art thou?

 

[Marcel]

And I'm really puzzled by your platitudes Marcel. You have a sharp nose for politicization of threads when it suits you.

Is that so? Maybe you could point that out to me where I seem to do that. But please in a PM.

To all: if you have a problem with me or one of the others of the forum team, please don't try to ventilate that through some cryptic posts. Pm me or the mod concerned and state clearly what you think goes wrong. We're only human and make mistakes just like you do. So it's okay if you want to correct something. I'm not a bully and can admit when I'm wrong. If you don't feel comfortable with me alone in a pm, just add one of the team that you do trust.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... In this highly charged atmosphere, everything is political,"
I agree .... but one President didn't make it so .... it has followed the same course in Canada and GB ...
Sadly, I am expecting to see Winston Churchill's statue torn down any day now.

 

[michaelmaltby]

Lawmakers in Canada and Scotland have pointed to the US as an example of failed coronavirus containment
Big deal .... they're politicians. They are hardly the pillars of precision and good judgement.
Law makers in the EU and elsewhere have villanized Poland, Hungry and Slovakia for elitist, non-inclusive immigration policies yet these countries have had successful COVID-19 containment policies .... so pick and chose your cherries ...
The only thing I care about is how successful countries are in restoring their economies ... without progress in this the world slips backwards.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

I agree .... but one President didn't make it so ....

I first became aware of it in the 1964 presidential campaign, when Barry Goldwater, admittedly a little too far right for mainstream America of the time, was painted by the media image mongers as the devil incarnate. I didn't agree with his politics, but thought he didn't deserve all the vitriol thrown at him.
That was stage one of the cancer, and anyone who's had their ear to the ground in the years since can fill in the rest of the story. Paul Simon noticed it early on:
"And the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls...and tenement halls...echoing the sounds...of silence". 1965 to 2016, it took awhile, but prophecy can be like that.
There've been a few honest gentlemen/women on both sides of the aisle over the years, but not enough to stitch together the diverging narratives of history, social values, and world view, so that now we live in alternate realities that are mutually incomprehensible. Each believes the other to be fabricated out of whole cloth and based on warped social values and deliberately distorted truths for nefarious purposes.
Consensus, what's that?? Sounds too much like capitulation to me, man! MWOTH!! (My way or....)

 

[MIflyer]

I'd guess what I'd like to know is what is really a good source of information. I understand that it's been admitted that the "Ordinary people don't need an N95 mask." statements made by the professionals early in the pandemic were outright lies, focused on making sure the masks were available for medical personnel. Now they admit that an N95 is really the only thing that will stop the virus. But we are told to keep wearing the largely ineffective masks anyway, and this has been remphasized lately.

We were told that people who display no symptoms but test positive can transmit the virus to others. Then we are told that children who test positive can transmit the virus to others only very rarely, if ever. Okay, what about adults who test positive but have no symptoms? I have lost track of the truth on this. I suspect that when the "authorities" realized they had shut down the schools for no reason they decided they'd better shut up.

We were told that the virus can persist for long periods, perhaps weeks on surfaces. Now, it seems that while it might persist it usually does not do so in quantities and at a virulence level that is likely to cause actual transmission.

The list of possible symptoms keeps growing. We were told that a runny nose meant a cold, not the WuFlu. Now they say a runny nose is a symptom. I fully expect that the list of symptoms eventually will be expanded to include everything, including athelete's foot, gastric reflux, and rabies.

One of my favorite sayings: "There is no such thing as 'Science'; there is only that which quickly becomes practical engineering and that which remains as unfounded speculation." To that I add my own: "The only thing 'Settled' in science is the politics."

Which is "Science"? Which is practical engineering? Which is politics? And which is mere rumor?

 

[michaelmaltby]

"consensus" is not leadership ....
There are 2 things to fear in life .... 1. the law of unintended consequences; 2. The Tyranny of Good Intentions.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Lawmakers in Canada and Scotland have pointed to the US as an example of failed coronavirus containment
Big deal .... they're politicians. They are hardly the pillars of precision and good judgement.
Law makers in the EU and elsewhere have villanized Poland, Hungry and Slovakia for elitist, non-inclusive immigration policies yet these countries have had successful COVID-19 containment policies .... so pick and chose your cherries ...
The only thing I care about is how successful countries are in restoring their economies ... without progress in this the world slips backwards.

I'm still confused at your problem. Why you felt the need to attack and call people hypocrites. I am really starting to get annoyed.

All I am saying is that the response in the US by our leaders, professionals and population on all sides has been a joke and a failure.

Thats pretty much a fact, whether you like it or not. Anything else is putting your head in the sand.

Now I would recommend you follow Marcels advice.

 

[Glider]

What I find equally annoying is the fact that this is taking our eyes off other very important factors. It's been reported that Russia was paying a bounty for every death of an American or British soldier and I haven't heard a squeak from either government.

 

[Gnomey]

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Shaking my head...

The American population is equally to blame for this. Stupidity is another reason why we are losing the battle with the virus.

How did we ever become a superpower?

 

[Zipper730]

I don't see why people won't just wear a stupid mask. It's not hard to do.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I don't see why people won't just wear a stupid mask. It's not hard to do.

That is a topic that will be debated till the end of time. No need to beat a dead on horse on it either. Nothing anyone says on this forum will change the minds of any one person here whether they agree or disagree.

On another note...


The entire topic of the coronavirus is a very difficult one, because everything about it is political. We have rules on this forum pertaining to that, and it is really hard to separate the non-political from the political. I struggle with it myself. I am human, as are all Mods, just as Marcel has pointed out, and I am very passionate about this topic and what I perceive are the reasons for our failure. Unfortunately, that means I go too far sometimes. As stated, I am human. That does not make me a hypocrite or whatever the heck people want to call me. I have to catch myself, and do better. I don't mind people pointing it out either, but they can certainly do it in a better way.

 

[Crimea_River]

 

[XBe02Drvr]

The entire topic of the coronavirus is a very difficult one, because everything about it is political. We have rules on this forum pertaining to that, and it is really hard to separate the non-political from the political. I struggle with it myself. I am human, as are all Mods, just as Marcel has pointed out, and I am very passionate about this topic and what I perceive are the reasons for our failure. Unfortunately, that means I go too far sometimes. As stated, I am human. That does not make me a hypocrite or whatever the heck people want to call me. I have to catch myself, and do better. I don't mind people pointing it out either, but it can certainly be done in a better way.

I think all of the above applies to all of us here, Chris. We've got to channel our passion into motivating action, and avoid letting it antagonize discussion. Easier said than done, I know, and my apologies for sounding like a preachy kindergarten teacher. If we can keep a civil tongue in our head, we can get through this minefield unscathed.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think all of the above applies to all of us here, Chris. We've got to channel our passion into motivating action, and avoid letting it antagonize discussion. Easier said than done, I know, and my apologies for sounding like a preachy kindergarten teacher. If we can keep a civil tongue in our head, we can get through this minefield unscathed.
Cheers,
Wes

I do not disagree. I, however, question the feasibility of that when our country would rather divide ourselves than work together.

We have turned on each other so much in this country, we have forgotten who we are. I honestly believe our leadership wants this. A divided population is an ignorant and powerless one.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

I'd guess what I'd like to know is what is really a good source of information.

Join the club, brother! There is no gospel here, and none of those preaching at us are ordained priests. When it comes to information, we all need to practice a little media literacy and decide for ourselves what information we trust. Scary, isn't it? Requires us to be active editors of information, not passive consumers of it. I know, I get lazy too, sometimes.
Our problem, (as I see it) is that we are living in the middle of a global science experiment, where we are both the lab rats and the researchers, and the raw observation notes of every step of every investigation are being trumpeted to the public as the latest "scientific fact" without vetting or peer review. Meanwhile, the new and unknown virus under investigation is a moving target, evolving under our noses before we can nail it down.
Fortunately, I have a woodshop, and had a package of N95s on hand when this thing blew up. I grabbed one for myself, gave one to my lady friend, and the rest went to our local community health center. I don't expect my mask to protect me from the virus. Its function is to protect others from any virus I may be carrying. I expect them to extend me the same courtesy. If we ALL observe these courtesies, grant each other our prescribed two meters personal space, wash hands frequently, and stay home as much as possible, we can lick this thing in short order. Will we? Nah, too much discipline for Americans to abide by. "Damned if I'll let some egghead X-spurt with more letters after his name than an English lord tell ME what to do." Thus we will be the eternal reservoir, keeping the virus alive after the rest of the world has mostly eradicated it.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Vincenzo]

Italy report, 28th June, 5 pm CEST, weekly changes
cases 240,310, +1,811, deaths 34,738, +104, recovered 188,891, +5,998, active cases 16,681, -4,291, tests 5,314,619, +330,249, people tested 3,220,020, +178,270
fatality rate 14.5% (=)
mortality rate 576 per million (+2)
test rate 88.1 per thousand (+5.5)
positive rate 7.5% (-0.3)
test rate this week 5,475 per million (-554)
positive rate this week 1% (+0.2)
new case rate this week 30 per million (+5)

 

[Marcel]

I don't see why people won't just wear a stupid mask. It's not hard to do.

I'm not starting that discussion again. If you want to wear a mask, please do, but learn how to operate them correctly, dispose them safely and often and get the best mask possible and don't just wear a self made cloth. And last of all, don't think the mask on it's own will protect you, make sure you do all the other things, keeping distance, don't go out if you don't have to, don't go to crowded places, sneeze in your elbow and wash those hands well with soap as often as necessary.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Join the club, brother! There is no gospel here, and none of those preaching at us are ordained priests. When it comes to information, we all need to practice a little media literacy and decide for ourselves what information we trust. Scary, isn't it? Requires us to be active editors of information, not passive consumers of it. I know, I get lazy too, sometimes.
Our problem, (as I see it) is that we are living in the middle of a global science experiment, where we are both the lab rats and the researchers, and the raw observation notes of every step of every investigation are being trumpeted to the public as the latest "scientific fact" without vetting or peer review. Meanwhile, the new and unknown virus under investigation is a moving target, evolving under our noses before we can nail it down.
Fortunately, I have a woodshop, and had a package of N95s on hand when this thing blew up. I grabbed one for myself, gave one to my lady friend, and the rest went to our local community health center. I don't expect my mask to protect me from the virus. Its function is to protect others from any virus I may be carrying. I expect them to extend me the same courtesy. If we ALL observe these courtesies, grant each other our prescribed two meters personal space, wash hands frequently, and stay home as much as possible, we can lick this thing in short order. Will we? Nah, too much discipline for Americans to abide by. "Damned if I'll let some egghead X-spurt with more letters after his name than an English lord tell ME what to do." Thus we will be the eternal reservoir, keeping the virus alive after the rest of the world has mostly eradicated it.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

I agree with a lot of what you say, and it honestly worries me. Our response to the virus both leadership and personally as a population has been so poor.

July 1st, the EU will open up borders and travel, but NOT to the US because we are doing so poorly. My mother is aging, and I worry about her health, and I cannot travel to Germany to see her. My children's grandparents cannot come see them either. Our economy will not recover regardless of whether we open up or not. All because we as a nation are not mature enough to be inconvenienced for the greater good. Our leaders (Not just the one sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. although I give him the biggest share) are more concerned about ratings than the health of a nation. Worst of all...

We the people demand our rights, without recognizing our responsibilities, and that is not freedom but adolescence.