Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Top job old bean!
P-47 'Bridge Buster', 1/48th scale, 9th Air Force Diorama.
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- Thread starter
- #142
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks chaps.
Nothing much to show yet, as I'm about to clean the model and spray the matt clear coat.
Those stencils which were usable are in place - some of the spare Academy decals either dissolved in the water, or broke up when slid off the backing paper, and most of the old Monogram items were too thick and brittle with age, where the minimum carrier film was, in this instance, a disadvantage. There wasn't enough decal area to 'bed down' properly, and those which did really showed the carrier film. Not silvering, just a very visible surround to the printed image.
However, a few of the most prominent stencils have been successful - to varying degrees - with some of the white stencils represented by small dots of white paint. I've decided against making my own stencils, which takes some time in this scale, as many will not really be seen, in the diorama setting.
Some of the panel lines and weathering have also been toned-down, and those areas showing decal surround or out of register white areas, have been re-touched.
Once the clear coat is on, the gun sight will be completed, and the armour glass screen and windscreen fitted, before moving on to adding detail to the undercarriage legs. Hopefully, I'll have some pics posted later tonight.
Nothing much to show yet, as I'm about to clean the model and spray the matt clear coat.
Those stencils which were usable are in place - some of the spare Academy decals either dissolved in the water, or broke up when slid off the backing paper, and most of the old Monogram items were too thick and brittle with age, where the minimum carrier film was, in this instance, a disadvantage. There wasn't enough decal area to 'bed down' properly, and those which did really showed the carrier film. Not silvering, just a very visible surround to the printed image.
However, a few of the most prominent stencils have been successful - to varying degrees - with some of the white stencils represented by small dots of white paint. I've decided against making my own stencils, which takes some time in this scale, as many will not really be seen, in the diorama setting.
Some of the panel lines and weathering have also been toned-down, and those areas showing decal surround or out of register white areas, have been re-touched.
Once the clear coat is on, the gun sight will be completed, and the armour glass screen and windscreen fitted, before moving on to adding detail to the undercarriage legs. Hopefully, I'll have some pics posted later tonight.
- Thread starter
- #143
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
B*LL*CKS!
This bl**dy 'New Formula' Klear (Future) is doing my head in!
Just look at the mess with the supposed matt clear coat. This was mixed as I have always done it, by adding Tamiya Flat Base to the Future, stirring well, and then testing before use, to ensure it isn't too matt (which shows a grey to chalky white finish, depending on the proportion of Flat Base), or still leaning towards gloss.
The test was fine, when brushed. So, I prepared my older airbrush, after first cleaning and testing it, and began to spray. At first, the Future/Flat Base mix sprayed smoothly and evenly, but then would stop spraying, until the nozzle was cleaned with water, when it would spray again.
So, I changed to the new airbrush which, incidentally, has a direct gravity feed, with a larger primary opening at the base of the paint cup.
All was fine at first, then the same thing happened - spray, stop, clean, spray, and so on.
I emptied the paint cup, cleaned it, and the nozzle, and started over again, only to have the same thing happen. So, I decided to leave it at that, after one coat, and went to clean the airbrush.
It was totally 'gummed up', necessitating a complete strip-down, including the nozzle, jet and needle, which were all coated in a waxy deposit, quickly hardening. The nozzle had to be 'picked out' with a cocktail stick, where the fluid had instantly dried into a plastic-like 'skin'.
It was whilst cleaning the 'brush, and in between disgusting curses, that I noticed the bloom, and patchy areas on the model!
So, the worst parts have now been cleaned off, and I'm in a bit of a dilemma.
If I try to spray a 'normal', acrylic matt varnish over the Future, I don't know what reactions might occur, and if I try to re-spray the Future/FB mix, I could be encountering the same problem. Consequently, I've decided to leave the model for about 12 to 18 hours, then re-coat the 'bad' areas with neat Future, applied by brush, and then re-coat these areas with a new Future/FB mix, again applied by paint brush.
If that doesn't work, then the whole lot will be stripped off, and an acrylic matt varnish applied. Another item to add to my Hannant's order, unless my LHS has some, but I think they only stock aerosols in acrylic.
Bottom line - I'm NOT going to use this 'new' Future again!
Regardless of what has been stated elsewhere, on You Tube videos, in the Modelling Press or where ever, it is NOT the same as the original stuff.
And why the **** change something which worked perfectly, in its intended role, for 40 years ?!!!
EDIT:- I forgot to mention - I noticed, when decanting the Future from the bottle (which is more difficult to handle, for me, at least, than the 'old' bottle), that apart from the 'milky' appearance, there is also a very slight, pale, yellowish brown tinge visible around the edges of the 'flow'.
This bl**dy 'New Formula' Klear (Future) is doing my head in!
Just look at the mess with the supposed matt clear coat. This was mixed as I have always done it, by adding Tamiya Flat Base to the Future, stirring well, and then testing before use, to ensure it isn't too matt (which shows a grey to chalky white finish, depending on the proportion of Flat Base), or still leaning towards gloss.
The test was fine, when brushed. So, I prepared my older airbrush, after first cleaning and testing it, and began to spray. At first, the Future/Flat Base mix sprayed smoothly and evenly, but then would stop spraying, until the nozzle was cleaned with water, when it would spray again.
So, I changed to the new airbrush which, incidentally, has a direct gravity feed, with a larger primary opening at the base of the paint cup.
All was fine at first, then the same thing happened - spray, stop, clean, spray, and so on.
I emptied the paint cup, cleaned it, and the nozzle, and started over again, only to have the same thing happen. So, I decided to leave it at that, after one coat, and went to clean the airbrush.
It was totally 'gummed up', necessitating a complete strip-down, including the nozzle, jet and needle, which were all coated in a waxy deposit, quickly hardening. The nozzle had to be 'picked out' with a cocktail stick, where the fluid had instantly dried into a plastic-like 'skin'.
It was whilst cleaning the 'brush, and in between disgusting curses, that I noticed the bloom, and patchy areas on the model!
So, the worst parts have now been cleaned off, and I'm in a bit of a dilemma.
If I try to spray a 'normal', acrylic matt varnish over the Future, I don't know what reactions might occur, and if I try to re-spray the Future/FB mix, I could be encountering the same problem. Consequently, I've decided to leave the model for about 12 to 18 hours, then re-coat the 'bad' areas with neat Future, applied by brush, and then re-coat these areas with a new Future/FB mix, again applied by paint brush.
If that doesn't work, then the whole lot will be stripped off, and an acrylic matt varnish applied. Another item to add to my Hannant's order, unless my LHS has some, but I think they only stock aerosols in acrylic.
Bottom line - I'm NOT going to use this 'new' Future again!
Regardless of what has been stated elsewhere, on You Tube videos, in the Modelling Press or where ever, it is NOT the same as the original stuff.
And why the **** change something which worked perfectly, in its intended role, for 40 years ?!!!
EDIT:- I forgot to mention - I noticed, when decanting the Future from the bottle (which is more difficult to handle, for me, at least, than the 'old' bottle), that apart from the 'milky' appearance, there is also a very slight, pale, yellowish brown tinge visible around the edges of the 'flow'.
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fubar57
General
Gawd, I am at a total loss at what to say. I just want to wish you all the best in trying to sort it out.
Geo
Geo
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Having expressed a few, not so pleasant words about the product in question, I have all the faith in that you can fix this old boy and finish off with another gem, in your collection....
Btw, is there any P-47's left for us other builders in 1/48-1/32, or did you snap them all up?
Btw, is there any P-47's left for us other builders in 1/48-1/32, or did you snap them all up?
- Thread starter
- #146
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks George!
I'll get it sorted eventually - I hope - but the overall finish might not be as good as I'd hoped for.
One thing's for sure, the cheap source of gloss varnish, in the form of Future, is no more, as far as I'm concerned !
I've just done a trial, brushing-on a new mix of Future/Flat Base, on a very small area under the wing and, so far, it's looking reasonably acceptable. I've also managed to wash off some of the affected area, and I'm going to see what happens when the neat Future is brushed on. If it doesn't work out to my satisfaction, then I'll try to remove the lot, and re-coat in a decent matt clear varnish, when I get some.
I am so p*ssed off!
An error of my own making, although bad enough, is bearable, but when the material is (apparently) at fault, it really bugs me!
Pics, hopefully, when (or if) it's sorted.
I'll get it sorted eventually - I hope - but the overall finish might not be as good as I'd hoped for.
One thing's for sure, the cheap source of gloss varnish, in the form of Future, is no more, as far as I'm concerned !
I've just done a trial, brushing-on a new mix of Future/Flat Base, on a very small area under the wing and, so far, it's looking reasonably acceptable. I've also managed to wash off some of the affected area, and I'm going to see what happens when the neat Future is brushed on. If it doesn't work out to my satisfaction, then I'll try to remove the lot, and re-coat in a decent matt clear varnish, when I get some.
I am so p*ssed off!
An error of my own making, although bad enough, is bearable, but when the material is (apparently) at fault, it really bugs me!
Pics, hopefully, when (or if) it's sorted.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Awful luck Terry. Wish I could offer some advice based on experience but I've got to say that's a new one to me. I wonder if the bottle could use a good shake before you next use it, though it seems they's added something to the formula that's now reacting with whatever it is that Tamiya use in their flat base.
- Thread starter
- #148
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
That's what I'm thinking too, Andy. I always give the bottle a good shake, and also shake, and thoroughly stir, the mixed Future/FB. The puzzling thing is, how it's gone like that in some areas, but not others.
That said, the finish of the gloss, neat Future, being somewhat 'bubbly' and not as glossy, should maybe have rang warning bells.
That said, the finish of the gloss, neat Future, being somewhat 'bubbly' and not as glossy, should maybe have rang warning bells.
Crimea_River
Marshal
The fact that it waxed up in your airbrush is a potential clue that there is a reaction happening.
- Thread starter
- #150
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yep. The old stuff used to do it too, but nowhere near as quickly, or as thickly. It used to form a thin, clear film in the nozzle, but only after a complete 'session', perhaps needing the odd spot of nozzle cleaning whilst spraying, whereas this new stuff forms a thicker, creamy-pale yellowish brown coloured, heavy coating, and after only two or three seconds of spraying. It also leaves a nasty coating in the paint cup, which is a sod to remove fully - there's still feint traces, even after flushing with water, iso-alcohol, wiping out, and more flushing. If I hadn't stripped-down the airbrush, it would have been gummed up solid!
Wildcat
Major
Damn Terry! Hope you get it sorted out mate.
- Thread starter
- #152
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
So do I mate!
I did a trial of neat Future, over a partly cleaned area, and it made the matt areas worse, and emphasised the gloss areas underneath!
I now have two options: 1) paint over the worst areas, hoping the paint doesn't react even more with the bl**dy Future, or 2) try to strip the Future from the worst areas and then apply a decent matt varnish.
I understand that an ammonia-based cleaner will do the job, and I'm presuming that 'Windex', often mentioned for such a job, is a window cleaner. So, I'm off to the LHS to try to find some good, non-aerosol varnishes, followed by a visit to a supermarket, for some window cleaner, and if that fails, it's into the tool box for the biggest **** off hammer I can find!!
Not for the model, but to beat the s**t out of this bottle of Johnson's Klear with Pledge 'New Formula' cr@p !!!
I did a trial of neat Future, over a partly cleaned area, and it made the matt areas worse, and emphasised the gloss areas underneath!
I now have two options: 1) paint over the worst areas, hoping the paint doesn't react even more with the bl**dy Future, or 2) try to strip the Future from the worst areas and then apply a decent matt varnish.
I understand that an ammonia-based cleaner will do the job, and I'm presuming that 'Windex', often mentioned for such a job, is a window cleaner. So, I'm off to the LHS to try to find some good, non-aerosol varnishes, followed by a visit to a supermarket, for some window cleaner, and if that fails, it's into the tool box for the biggest **** off hammer I can find!!
Not for the model, but to beat the s**t out of this bottle of Johnson's Klear with Pledge 'New Formula' cr@p !!!
Bummer Terry...hope you can get it sorted....
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Why not sent them (the fabricator) a letter of sh*t, with the lines; this is what I think of your new and improved product....
- Thread starter
- #155
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I would old boy, but I haven't really got a valid argument, as the product is not designed, or intended for, the use to which it's being put. But it really does severely annoy me, when a product which has been in use for around 40 years, doing it's intended function well, is changed, for no apparent reason.
Unless, of course, one of the reasons for change was to stop it being used, as a cheap varnish, by us modelling types!
Let's face it, the low price, compared to 'proper' varnishes, was the only real advantage the original Klear/Future had over conventional acrylic gloss varnish.
Anyway, I'm, back from my mini shopping trip, armed with a bottle of window cleaner, and Tamiya gloss and matt clear varnishes, which will have to do for now, until I can get some more economically priced and sized Xtracrylics. So, after a firtel around the forum, and some lunch, I'll see what can be done to save the Thunderbolt.
Unless, of course, one of the reasons for change was to stop it being used, as a cheap varnish, by us modelling types!
Let's face it, the low price, compared to 'proper' varnishes, was the only real advantage the original Klear/Future had over conventional acrylic gloss varnish.
Anyway, I'm, back from my mini shopping trip, armed with a bottle of window cleaner, and Tamiya gloss and matt clear varnishes, which will have to do for now, until I can get some more economically priced and sized Xtracrylics. So, after a firtel around the forum, and some lunch, I'll see what can be done to save the Thunderbolt.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Hmmmmm......I smell a conspiracy old boy!
- Thread starter
- #157
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Sorry, it's the beans ................
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Aaaah.....them beans again old boy?
Crimea_River
Marshal
Hope the Windex doesn't wreck the decals Terry. I've only use it in very small amounts to remove runs.
- Thread starter
- #160
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm expecting to lose a couple of stencil decals Andy, but I'm only going to use the cleaner (if it works) on the areas affected. The rest of the airframe I'll probably have to live with, although I'm also going to do a test, with the clear gloss, on an area which can be corrected if it goes wrong. If it works, then I might gloss varnish the whole model, followed by matt varnish when the gloss has fully cured.
One thing's for certain though, the sooner I can get the Xtracrylics gloss and matt varnishes, in 100ml bottles, or the 300ml gloss when it's back in stock, the better. The 100ml costs £3.25, and £5 for the 300ml, whereas a tiny 10ml bottle of Tamiya stuff is £1.60 !!!
Now I know why I used Future !
One thing's for certain though, the sooner I can get the Xtracrylics gloss and matt varnishes, in 100ml bottles, or the 300ml gloss when it's back in stock, the better. The 100ml costs £3.25, and £5 for the 300ml, whereas a tiny 10ml bottle of Tamiya stuff is £1.60 !!!
Now I know why I used Future !
