Questions about the Me-262

[Gixxerman]

73-75 was about the worse years for American cars, heavily stifled with poorly designed smog equipment.

A pal of mine had a 2.8 Ford Mustang II, it was not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination.....and the handling was about as far from European tastes as possible, very soft very wallowy.
It was comfy (for 2) had a lot of toys as I recall (at a time when things like aircon was rare in our cars).
Horses for courses I guess, made for those big straight US roads with low speed limits.

 

[Njaco]

How about those that make us drive 55-65 (sometimes 70 if we are lucky) on a perfectly good straight interstate that has hardly any traffic on it.

I want my Autobahn back...

Welcome to America! Land of the automobile governor!

 

[fastmongrel]

Just to show how cars have got faster and better handling over 30 years or so. The Capri 2.8i was considered a hot ship now my little 1.6 Astra would blow it into the weeds on anything other than a flat straight roads where they would be equal in top speed. Point them both at a bend and the Capri would upside down and in flames if it tried to follow me foot down. The only thing the Capri wins hands down on is looks my Astra is so dull looking I can barely remember what it looks like.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Welcome to America! Land of the automobile governor!

I don't think higher speeds would work anyhow here in the States. Not with the majority of people thinking it is uncool to use turn signals, and almost everyone texting and talking on their phones while driving.

As much as I love my country, i am not impressed with us as drivers. I think it is time to implement real driving schools like in Europe. I now know why everyone complains about American drivers in Germany.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You could also go to that short stretch of interstate in Texas where 85 is the new speed limit.

85?

Thats nothing...

 

[krieghund]

It is for 'Mericans slowly inching away from 55. Here in Saudi the official speed limit is 70 on the highways but ignored mostly so 100+ traveling cars are routinely observed. Cell phone usage and texting while driving is allowedand gas is 98 cents a gallon. If your a man you can drive (no real drivers ed). The usual passenger restrain system is the windshield. The mortality rate on the highway is the highest in the world and all these factors contribute. FYI

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have driven in the Middle East in several countries, no desire to do it again.

Boy are we off topic huh?

Lets try and get back to the 262...

 

[Gixxerman]

Did I ever mention the British Aerospace guys in Saudi?
Lots of ex-military ex-pats who 'advised' the local boys but seemed to end up doing a lot of the flying.
This comes from my father-in-law who was out there as a Brit Aero big-wig.
One early evening as a bunch of blokes headed for a town for a night out on one of the long straight desert roads a guy from the base flew so low that he 'compressed' the car roof with the underside rear strakes on the Jaguar he was flying.

Something of a
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvDDDKnNhuEI think......

OK ok back to 262's............

apart from i being a 210cc 10,000rpm 2-stroke

Wow, 10,000rpm that's impressive for 40's tech (esp late 44 - 45 Germany), I wonder how long they lasted (I'd expect the crank seals to wear out pretty fast at that rate).

 

[stona]

There's a manual available for the Riedel motor here.

Luftfahrt-Archiv Hafner

Scroll in Jumo to Jumo 004 and then down to "Riedel-Anlasser, Technische Unterlagen, Werksausgabe, Benzin-Anlasser Baumuster RBA/S10. 1943."

I am no expert but my information is that the motor gave 10hp at a much more reasonable 6,000rpm.

And from the RAE report.

Steve

 

[cimmex]

7100rpm at the crank, geared down to 6000 by a planetary gear.
cimmex

 

[davebender]

A starter motor doesn't run long before being turned off. It wouldn't even have time to completely warm up.

 

[Gixxerman]

Even 6,000rpm is impressive.....the Japanese 200/250 machines weren't doing that much more than that in the mid 1970s when 2 strokes were common.

Dave

I would imagine spinning a Jumo up to a high enough speed to get it working was making that little engine work for its living.
I expect it would be well truly warmed up by the time it had done its job......I'm sure I have seen conflicting reports on the engine too. One British report spoke of it being very well engineered another mentioned it was unreliable (bias against the 2 stroke engine?).....or maybe the engine was fine but it wasn't quite up to starting the jet?
The power output doesn't seem very high (it has a plain exhaust pipe so it's probably too early for the expansion pipe exhaust which did so much to increase 2 stroke power outputs).
Just my surmising.....maybe someone knows for sure?

 

[davebender]

What happened to all those compact 10 hp engines after the war ended?

Enterprising German teanagers should have acquired them @ scrap price. They could have invented the mini bike and/or go kart.

 

[Shortround6]

They were used for go kart racing.

 

[fastmongrel]

The Reidel seems a very expensive way of starting a jet engine. A twin 2 stroke even if built very cheaply is going to come out quite expensive theres a lot of parts. Wouldnt a cartridge or electric starter be a cheaper and more reliable alternative. Wouldnt fancy trying to start a cold 2 stroke to try and restart an engine with the ground getting closer.

 

[cimmex]

I don't think that you need the starter motor to restart the engine during flight, the airflow should be enough to turn the rotor. Electric starters would need external power because a internal battery is to weak. No clue whether gas cartridge works at jet engines at all.
cimmex

 

[fastmongrel]

I know some early British jets used cartridge starters this is a Venom starting up at 1:00 you can see the plume of smoke.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePs8Rd7DN8

and a Canberra


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fkmqPHTDE

What a fantastic noise

 

[vikingBerserker]

I believe the F-111 Ardvard used them as well.

 

[Gixxerman]

What happened to all those compact 10 hp engines after the war ended?

Enterprising German teanagers should have acquired them @ scrap price. They could have invented the mini bike and/or go kart.

Funnily enough Dave I was just recently listening to a show on the BBC iPlayer about the 1961 defection of Ernst Degner, he took the secrets of the disc valved 2 stroke the expansion chamber tuned exhaust (it used the shock waves in the exhaust to enormously increase the power of the engine.....doubling power output is mentioned) to Japan when he defected with the help of the Suzuki race team.
The program mentions that at the end of the war with the transport distribution system in Germany destroyed that one of the local factories had hundreds of completed 125cc motorcycles engines lying around.
People just helped themselves made use of them as they could.
Interesting story show.

 

[stona]

The Reidel seems a very expensive way of starting a jet engine. A twin 2 stroke even if built very cheaply is going to come out quite expensive theres a lot of parts. Wouldnt a cartridge or electric starter be a cheaper and more reliable alternative. Wouldnt fancy trying to start a cold 2 stroke to try and restart an engine with the ground getting closer.

A two stroke motor is a relatively simple thing to build. There is a lot of "gubbins" assocciated with a cartridge starter for a jet engine which might not make it an easier,cheaper or lighter option.
Cheers
Steve