UEFA Euro 2008

[Parmigiano]

Yes, Italy was missing Pirlo yesterday, both during the game and during penalties.
Still don´t understand why Donadoni let go Di Natale for the penalties...all the stadium was against him after his unfair teather... and he failed...I´m curious what the people in Italy think about this decision and what did they say about it on TV?
Semifinal Russia vs Spain and Turkey vs Germany...who would say it before the tournament...

Don't recall any 'unfair teather' from di natale, only thing i remember is that once he needed medical support and the referee stopped the game, like it happened several other times for Spaniards and Italians. The spanish supporters booed. The ball was in midfield, so there was no important action delayed and no reason to simulate something.
But maybe I am missing some other episode.

The only player who was yellow carded for simulation is a Spaniard who plunged in the Italian penalty area, but in my opinion that was not deserved because my impression is that he slipped rather than simulate a foul.

Dinatale failed the penalty because he failed to shoot properly, that's it!
Since penalties were under the spanish supporters curve every Italian was booed. But this is normal and a professional player is not impressed by that.

Italians thinks that Donadoni made worse mistakes than send DiNatale to shoot a penalty... The biggest one is to have used DelPiero (top scorer of the Italian league) only for half match+the last 10 minutes and stubbornly let the phantom of Toni play all the match...

But this is already the past, makes no sense to lose more time with that:the match is over.

What about a Germany-Russia final in Vienna, the capital city of eastern Europe? That may look scary ...

 

[Negative Creep]

I'm not sad to see the back of Italy and their negative defencive play. Despite the fact Ballack plays for them I could never support Germany, so I'm hoping Spain will win it. Have to say it's been better for England's absence as well

 

[Torch]

As watching football from across the pond I found one thing that was pretty irritating. Seemed there was a ball taken away from a player and the other team would start to mount an interesting counter attack when the ref would blow the whistle because all of a sudden the player who lost the ball is in agony. The replay clearly showed there was no foul and he was probably faking it to stop the opponents from gathering momentum.This happened numerous times. Should there be some kind of penalty? Maybe a free kick from the 25 meter distance? Yellow card? something? Just slows the whole game down. Opinions?

 

[seesul]

Don't recall any 'unfair teather' from di natale, only thing i remember is that once he needed medical support and the referee stopped the game, like it happened several other times for Spaniards and Italians. The spanish supporters booed. The ball was in midfield, so there was no important action delayed and no reason to simulate something.
But maybe I am missing some other episode.

The only player who was yellow carded for simulation is a Spaniard who plunged in the Italian penalty area, but in my opinion that was not deserved because my impression is that he slipped rather than simulate a foul.

Dinatale failed the penalty because he failed to shoot properly, that's it!
Since penalties were under the spanish supporters curve every Italian was booed. But this is normal and a professional player is not impressed by that.

Italians thinks that Donadoni made worse mistakes than send DiNatale to shoot a penalty... The biggest one is to have used DelPiero (top scorer of the Italian league) only for half match+the last 10 minutes and stubbornly let the phantom of Toni play all the match...

But this is already the past, makes no sense to lose more time with that:the match is over.

What about a Germany-Russia final in Vienna, the capital city of eastern Europe? That may look scary ...

Di Natale was slightly fouled in the overtime behind the side line, he fell down and moved back into the field just to stop the game which I think was unfair from him. Since that all the stadium whistled on him after his every touch with the ball. That´s why I don´t understand why he went for the penalties as he had to be under pressure...
But it´s really nothing against you, this is what I´ve noted...

 

[Parmigiano]

Di Natale was slightly fouled in the overtime behind the side line, he fell down and moved back into the field just to stop the game which I think was unfair from him. Since that all the stadium whistled on him after his every touch with the ball. That´s why I don´t understand why he went for the penalties as he had to be under pressure...
But it´s really nothing against you, this is what I´ve noted...

Oh, ok I understand now, but I don't think is a relevant episode.

Let's try to put things in perspective, and also to give some info about some aspect that is not familiar for those who did not play(ed) or know soccer.

When a player is temporarily injured and need assistance, it is normal behavior that the team who has the ball stops the game by throwing the ball out, and the other team will then return the ball at the restart of the game.
It is one of the few remaining non-written rules of fair play, and is normally considered very rude when it is not applied. Sometimes it happens that a team does not notice that a player is in need of assistance, and either the other team draw their attention or the referee applies the rules and stops the game himself.

This does not happens if there is a clear important action in place (an effective goal opportunity when the injured player is far away from the action) but this is the 'way to behave' in all other cases.

What the supporters of one team or the other believe, has little to do with the actual facts.

I don't believe that DiNatale 'moved back in the field to stop the game', the ball was in midfield and was an action like another. If it was a clear offensive opportunity, the referee would not have stopped the game, especially a referee with the style of the guy that was in charge (some ref whistle for everything, some other tolerate a more tough play. This ref was of the second type)

About supposed 'theatre' of the players in need of medical aid: guys, in 99% it is not theatre.
Taking a kick on your shin or on your thig's muscle, even if it is not foul, hurts like hell. It is a short-lived pain, but for about one minute is really intense and you literally can't stand it.
Bear in mind that any hit brought with a kick (like is almost always in soccer) has much more strenght than a hit brought by hands or arms, and normally you bring the tackle with all your available strenght.
Just ask somebody expert of martial arts how more powerful is a kick than a push.

So, even if i.e. you first touch the ball and after that the other player leg (and this is not foul), be sure that he will notice the hit. Same if you revert roles...
Even in sports more violent than soccer, like rugby or american football, the legs are mainly used to run and not to play or tackle, so there is a lot less chance to hit somebody with a kick.

Acting from soccer players normally take place when there is a potential reward, like diving inside the penalty area or enhancing the effect of a 'forbidden' foul like a slap or a fist. But divers are normally well known by the referees, and they are seldom successful...

 

[Mitya]

RUSSIA-CHAMPION!!! И хихкаин!!!

 

[Torch]

Parm thanks for taking the time to respond. I grew up in NYC and the only soccer I really played was on a cement playground. We were a bunch of Italian,French,Spanish,Irish kids with a crappy ball having fun. I do remember playing goalie once when my friend Albert Lemonica kicked the ball and it caught me square in the face(the kid was a beast), thought I busted my nose and while there was no real tackling we were bloodied daily by trips and falls. The point being I understand the pain involved in the beautiful game, just can't stand the BS that slows this game down..PS was not picking on any one player from Spain nor Italy. Just a general comment...

 

[rochie]

i agree with you n,creep its been much better not having england in this euro's, i can watch the games with no sense of dread that sooner or later england are gonna have to play one of the better teams and be embarressed

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

About 24 more hours till the showdown tomorrow between Germany and Turkey.

Here are my predictions:

Semi Finals

Germany 3-0 Turkey
Spain 3-2 Russia

Finals

Germany 2-1 Spain

 

[Marcel]

I would say Russia - Spain 1-0. Wasn't impressed by Spain, but Russia is a good team.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Russia is playing very well, but I actually think Spain will pull this off. For some reason I think History is on there side a bit. This is the first time in 24 years they have made it to the Semis. I think they will ride it out until the end and be beaten by Germany.

 

[Parmigiano]

Parm thanks for taking the time to respond. I grew up in NYC and the only soccer I really played was on a cement playground. We were a bunch of Italian,French,Spanish,Irish kids with a crappy ball having fun. I do remember playing goalie once when my friend Albert Lemonica kicked the ball and it caught me square in the face(the kid was a beast), thought I busted my nose and while there was no real tackling we were bloodied daily by trips and falls. The point being I understand the pain involved in the beautiful game, just can't stand the BS that slows this game down..PS was not picking on any one player from Spain nor Italy. Just a general comment...

No problem at all, I did not meant to be aggressive or shut your mouth 'from the incommensurable height of my knowledge and wisdom' . I apologize if it looked like that.
I just like to talk relaxed about the sport, and share some of the insights.

I know cement playground, we used to play soccer 4vs4 in a basket field and I still have a scare (Note: one of the problems of amateur soccer is that is a proven impossibility to be 11 vs 11, no matter how carefully you plan the teams. The actual number of players showing up may range from 7 to 43, but to me never happened to be in 22)

about losing time, it's true that on nominal 90 minutes a soccer match average maybe 50-55 of effective play.
It's just like that and it's always been like that, they measure the time that way instead of stopping the clock at every interruption.
But if you go for 'real time' you cannot pretend 90 minutes of actual play, it would be a marathon: you should probably set the real time to 50-60 minutes. Plus you can't expect that somebody run 90 minutes w/o interruptions... sometimes you need to take some breath!

It has to be said that in Hockey, Basket or American football there are also a lot of (planned, in this case) interruptions that allows the players to recover some breath, and the real time played is not much different than 50-60 minutes.
Rugby is another sport where time is not measured as effective play, but the continuity of the game is randomly broken even more often than soccer.

I, for instance, can't stand to watch American football that always stops, people agrees tactics, they place 22 players in the field and finally they play for 25 seconds before stopping again. Plus, when they move from attack to defense they change the whole team.... where is the dynamics of the game? Everything is planned in advance, everything looking more like a math demonstration than a sport.
But it is because I don't know the game, I never lived or played it (i could not do it, when young I was 120 pounds when fully dressed...) and I simply don't understand the 'finesse' of the real things that happens in the field.

 

[Torch]

Part of American football slow down is the fact it's basically controlled by the media and commercial breaks, they actually hold up plays to get the commericials in . As far as baseball it's pretty much a joke on the speed of the game. I think hockey would be about the fastest or most continous play with soccer, rugby and Australian rules football which I've only seen a few times in there also. American football is actually alot of fun to play and if you notice the players are getting bigger and stronger all the time, the violence of some of the hits are incredible and hard to imagine that someone can get up, that's why I think alot of Amis think soccer is for pansy's (I totally disagree) and also what soccer players get paid here compared to Europe is part of why a dad says go for basketball, football or baseball. Just more cash thrown around. PS: I think Russia will take it to Spain...........

 

[seesul]

Oh, ok I understand now, but I don't think is a relevant episode.

Let's try to put things in perspective, and also to give some info about some aspect that is not familiar for those who did not play(ed) or know soccer.

When a player is temporarily injured and need assistance, it is normal behavior that the team who has the ball stops the game by throwing the ball out, and the other team will then return the ball at the restart of the game.
It is one of the few remaining non-written rules of fair play, and is normally considered very rude when it is not applied. Sometimes it happens that a team does not notice that a player is in need of assistance, and either the other team draw their attention or the referee applies the rules and stops the game himself.

This does not happens if there is a clear important action in place (an effective goal opportunity when the injured player is far away from the action) but this is the 'way to behave' in all other cases.

What the supporters of one team or the other believe, has little to do with the actual facts.

I don't believe that DiNatale 'moved back in the field to stop the game', the ball was in midfield and was an action like another. If it was a clear offensive opportunity, the referee would not have stopped the game, especially a referee with the style of the guy that was in charge (some ref whistle for everything, some other tolerate a more tough play. This ref was of the second type)

About supposed 'theatre' of the players in need of medical aid: guys, in 99% it is not theatre.
Taking a kick on your shin or on your thig's muscle, even if it is not foul, hurts like hell. It is a short-lived pain, but for about one minute is really intense and you literally can't stand it.
Bear in mind that any hit brought with a kick (like is almost always in soccer) has much more strenght than a hit brought by hands or arms, and normally you bring the tackle with all your available strenght.
Just ask somebody expert of martial arts how more powerful is a kick than a push.

So, even if i.e. you first touch the ball and after that the other player leg (and this is not foul), be sure that he will notice the hit. Same if you revert roles...
Even in sports more violent than soccer, like rugby or american football, the legs are mainly used to run and not to play or tackle, so there is a lot less chance to hit somebody with a kick.

Acting from soccer players normally take place when there is a potential reward, like diving inside the penalty area or enhancing the effect of a 'forbidden' foul like a slap or a fist. But divers are normally well known by the referees, and they are seldom successful...

I used to play football but had to give it up due to health problems so I think I know something about the rules.

I´m sorry I couldn´t find any video of this moment but maybe you could have a chance to find it. If so this happened 6 minutes before the OT´s end. I totaly agree with you it´s fair from the other side to kick the ball aside when some of your competitors is injured and stop the game. No doubt...
But Di Natale knows it as well and if you have a chance, check it out...he was ''injured'' on the side line and as he saw Spain is in the ball possesion he rolled back in the field, though he could be treated behind the line. After noting the referee stopped the game, he stood up and his ''injury" was healed...and since that a half of the stadium whistled on him...also the newspapers here wrote about it the other day and no one could understand why he went for the penalties...

But don´t get me wrong, this is just a episode...

 

[Parmigiano]

I used to play football but had to give it up due to health problems so I think I know something about the rules.

I´m sorry I couldn´t find any video of this moment but maybe you could have a chance to find it. If so this happened 6 minutes before the OT´s end. I totaly agree with you it´s fair from the other side to kick the ball aside when some of your competitors is injured and stop the game. No doubt...
But Di Natale knows it as well and if you have a chance, check it out...he was ''injured'' on the side line and as he saw Spain is in the ball possesion he rolled back in the field, though he could be treated behind the line. After noting the referee stopped the game, he stood up and his ''injury" was healed...and since that a half of the stadium whistled on him...also the newspapers here wrote about it the other day and no one could understand why he went for the penalties...

But don´t get me wrong, this is just a episode...

I did not noticed this sequence, but if he did that he deserved a yellow card for simulation.

I had not the perception that Spain was running some important action, they were maybe 10 meters after the mid line, but the TV camera does not cover all the field and maybe there was a favorable tactical situation for Spain that was not in the frame.

If not for an immediate danger, there was no point for such a simulation. Ball to Spain in midfield, you simulate, ball thown out, your team throw in and return ball to spain at midfield: no reason to sweat for a simulation.

About sending him to shoot the penalty, I don't think that episode was important. Nor should be the whistles, for an experienced player. DiNatale is a good forward, he usually shoot the penalties in his team and there was not such a great choice of alternatives.
The two best at penalties (Grosso and DelPiero) were correctly positioned as first and last, of the remainders Di Natale was one of the most qualified.
Sorry life, but that was the team this year...

 

[rochie]

i dont think turkey has much of a chance tonight with only 13 outfield players fit, but spain v russia might be a close game with spain more experianced team just edging i, but hey i'm english what do we know russia will probably win 4-0 !!!

 

[Parmigiano]

8.45 PM, still at damn work, now 1 hour to go home and then back to airport to fly out tomorrow morning at 5... and then in the US there is no free tv station that air the matches: Europeans are over for me !

 

[Torch]

Germany won but they need to go to a good laundromat to get their shorts cleaned out..

 

[The Basket]

The Turks gave a good game but the Germans scored 3 goals.

 

[rochie]

well done turkey for taking germany to the very end.
but you never bet against germany they are the best team once a tournament starts no matter how good the players they have or how well they are playing beforehand.
great goal by lahm to clinch it, just!!!!!