GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Yorktown's radar detected Hiryu's inbound flights.
She was able to direct a fighter intercept, stopped SBD recovery directing them up as CAP instead and for all that, she still took hits.
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The Yorktown's radar detected Hiryu's inbound flights.We're giving the IJN shipborne radar and aircraft radios equal to the best then in service in the RN, USN and KM (German naval radar was for FC, so limited here), whilst making them early innovators in CIC and fighter coordination (essentially what the RAF had in 1940). We're not inventing radar or radio tech that wasn't in existence in 1942.
Yes. I've done my very best to convey that radar, radios, CIC and CAP discipline will not guarantee the IJN carriers are not hit. I'm not sure what else I can say to get that across.The Yorktown's radar detected Hiryu's inbound flights.... and for all that, she still took hits.
Ok, if you are talking in the hypothetical. In the real world the Zeros were rarely if ever vectored by radio; however I fully accept the hypothetical that IF the Japanese had functional radios, effective radar and command and control, things would have been much worse for the Americans.They're not loitering, they've been vectored by radio by their CIC to intercept incoming wave(s) of HA dive bombers.
Yes, the "A Team" pilots from Hiryu were able to make things count once they got through.The Yorktown's radar detected Hiryu's inbound flights.
She was able to direct a fighter intercept, stopped SBD recovery directing them up as CAP instead and for all that, she still took hits.
Well yes, that's the entire point of this thread, and we're in the What'If forum.Ok, if you are talking in the hypothetical.
This hypothetical is useful in thinking about how inexperience and technological deficiencies affected all of the carrier-equipped naval powers. Great Britain had their HMS Eagle caught and destroyed by a battleship early in the war. The Lexington had immature damage control systems. Japan had a grossly incapable fighter control system combined with ineffective anti-aircraft defenses, oh, and they had immature damage control systems too.Well yes, that's the entire point of this thread, and we're in the What'If forum.
Yo' Thumpster,
Military Aviation History Channel just put out a video "In Defense of the Worst Plane of WW 2, The Brewster Buffalo". Tell buffnut if ya' see him.
If the IJN has radar, radios, CIC and CAP discipline I wonder if their choice of aircraft would be different. You don't need the Zero's agility if you're being vectored onto a target and fighting as a team rather than as one. In this case rate of climb and top speed would be more important. Something closer to a longer range Mitsubishi J2M rather than the A6M.
Val and Kate strikes can be readied and launched during periods of clear skies. The IJN will have advance warning of incoming strikes so to secure their ships. Retreating USN strikes can be tracked so to suggest the direction of their own carriers. Radar, radios, CIC and CAP discipline make all this possible, and improve the odds for the IJN
Giving the Kido Butai radar, working aircraft radios, CIC and CAP discipline is essentially a system like Chain Home. Radar detects incoming aircraft, CIC assesses the radar report and allocates fighters to intercept and calls for a scramble. Once aloft flight leaders are contacted by radio and vectored onto their targets. Sounds like Chain Home to me., if you want improvement the whole operation has to work as a system like Chain Home, not piecemeal which is what the IJN had.
I'm trying, I really am. I've already said that the Kido Butai has radar, working aircraft radios, CIC and CAP discipline. The latter point, CAP discipline means pilots are now deferring to CIC and acting as a team rather than breaking ranks and chasing anything they see.You're allocating targets to fighters who work independantly.
Most likely because they had to secure from general quarters and could only arm/prep one type at a time.Why did Hiryu split the Vals and Kates up? Why not go for all in?
HMS Glorious. HMS Eagle was sunk by a submarine.This hypothetical is useful in thinking about how inexperience and technological deficiencies affected all of the carrier-equipped naval powers. Great Britain had their HMS Eagle caught and destroyed by a battleship early in the war. The Lexington had immature damage control systems. Japan had a grossly incapable fighter control system combined with ineffective anti-aircraft defenses, oh, and they had immature damage control systems too.
I don't think any navy in 1942 could do as well as the RAF in 1940. That being said if it works well enough to save even 1 of the 3 carriers lost initially the outcome of the battle is going to be very different.I'm trying, I really am. I've already said that the Kido Butai has radar, working aircraft radios, CIC and CAP discipline. The latter point, CAP discipline means pilots are now deferring to CIC and acting as a team rather than breaking ranks and chasing anything they see.
I think I'm going to step away from this thread for a while as I just keep repeating myself. Have a great weekend all. Cheers.